Everton "special" Talksport 9:00pm Monday 10th Aug 2015

[Woolly Blue]

The only way to deal with these people is not to deal with these people. Boycott the club and bring them to their knees and do that in combination with a full scale media campaign. Short term pain for long term gain.

Unpalatable to most, but it's the only way of sorting this ongoing nightmare out. If it's not taken then we go on for another decade of this at least.

Might have worked 10/15 years ago, but even if attendances dropped to 20k, the drop in revenue would be minimal compared to the TV money. It might embarass the board a bit, and they might do something vaguely conciliatory, but they wouldn't just walk because of it, why would they ?

Normally it's easier to influence from within when you're having some sort of dialogue. With our board, that seems unlikely. If, as a fan base, we ever get whiff of someone being interested in the club, that's the time to exert pressure in any way possible.

To get any info about possible interested parties, you probably need inside info, hence the need, however unpalatable it might seem, to have some sort of relationship with people high up in the club hierarchy.

 

[allen]

Some very interesting points being made and actually far more common ground among a wide range of supporters than we've seen previously.

To re-iterate and add to what I said last night.

The club is in the position it is in due to the chronic under-investment since the start of the Premier League 23 years ago.

Performances on the pitch have to some extent masked this, but (i) over performance relative to resources is not sustainable over the long term, (ii) the levels previously reached are still not high enough given our standing in the game and the expectation of fans and (iii) the resource gap between Everton and our peers grow greater each year.

The key to sustainable success and development in the team, the stadium and our commercial performance is capital.

We cannot grow Everton out of revenues alone, especially when the revenues of our peers are growing at a faster rate than ours. If we continue this strategy we will continue our gradual decline.

The only solution is a significant injection of capital to develop the team, the stadium move or redevelopment of Goodison, and working capital to increase commercial revenues.

The capital can only realistically come from three sources, the existing shareholders, the introduction of new shareholders (or a combination of both) or a sale of the club to individuals or a corporation that can provide that funding.

It really is that stark and simple.

The saddest thing about this situation we find ourselves in is that it isn't new. We've had a quarter of a century to get our Premier League act together, and we haven't.

 

[deipnosophist]

Invest where 'the rubber hits the road' i.e. on the playing field. Infrastructural consideration is accretion is to this fundamental, in my opinion.

 

[deipnosophist]

The saddest thing about this situation we find ourselves in is that it isn't new. We've had a quarter of a century to get our Premier League act together, and we haven't.

the situation is very different now..the TV money has changed the landscape. Hunker down, survival mode doesn't cut it now....Darwinism 101. Someone needs to jolly up with some ante. Hell, the TV money revenue is a 4 year 'backstop' guardian angel. It should be grasped and fresh equity embraced

 

[The Esk]

Invest where 'the rubber hits the road' i.e. on the playing field. Infrastructural consideration is accretion is to this fundamental, in my opinion.

Whilst I agree with this if football was not a regulated business, the implications of FFP mean that significant investment in the team and wages in isolation is limited or unsustainable.

We can prioritise the team in the event of a capital injection but the rest of the investment in the stadium etc must follow quickly.

 

[D410]

Might have worked 10/15 years ago, but even if attendances dropped to 20k, the drop in revenue would be minimal compared to the TV money. It might embarass the board a bit, and they might do something vaguely conciliatory, but they wouldn't just walk because of it, why would they ?

Normally it's easier to influence from within when you're having some sort of dialogue. With our board, that seems unlikely. If, as a fan base, we ever get whiff of someone being interested in the club, that's the time to exert pressure in any way possible.

To get any info about possible interested parties, you probably need inside info, hence the need, however unpalatable it might seem, to have some sort of relationship with people high up in the club hierarchy.

I think you will find that a damaged brand, dissatisfied customer fanbase, and a long term sapping PR battle will effect a sale price and reputations.

 

[deipnosophist]

Whilst I agree with this if football was not a regulated business, the implications of FFP mean that significant investment in the team and wages in isolation is limited or unsustainable.

We can prioritise the team in the event of a capital injection but the rest of the investment in the stadium etc must follow quickly.

Agree...it's a case of initiating a virtuous financial circle...at the moment we resemble hamsters just running frenetically around a wheel in a cage...and not going anywhere....which in relative terms (to PL counterparts), is backwards

 

[Saint Domingo]

Feels like a bit of chicken and egg. You can't increase merchandise revenues much without success in the pitch, you can't get success on the pitch without investment in the team which, without a capital investment, you can't make unless your revenues are good which is only the case of you've been successful and so it goes on. The quick ways out are either a massive cash injection or an increase in revenue through a new stadium. Considering neither of these are going to happen anytime soon under this board they should have been pursuing long term slowly but surely revenue increases in all possible areas. Instead they've been happy just to keep as is, dressing up inflation and TV money as improved commercial performance, hoping for their one big payday to come in.

 

[Quadvod]

Mention of the Taylor Report makes me sad.

There is the genesis of our current distressed state.

When that report came out, Goodison Park was the most modern ground in the country.

Heck, we has escalators in the Top Balcony since circa 1970, unheard off in this country at that time.

We had seats on all four sides of the ground, a rarity even as late as 1990.

Anyone remember the state of Stamford Bridge when we played there in the Cup in '91.....the day Tony Cottee missed a penno and we lost 1-0?

It was ramshackle.

Then came the Taylor Report and the diktat that all grounds in the English top flight become all seater.

I remember a national newspaper publishing a league table of how much the contemporary First Division/Premier League clubs would need to spend to modernise their grounds.

And I glowed with pride as my beloved EFC sat proudly at the very bottom of that table.

In other words, there it was in black and white......Goodison Park was the safest, most modern ground in England.

And it needed less money spent on it to comply with Taylor than any other ground.

So the Everton board sat in its laurels as per, tweaking a few things here and there to make us all seater.

Whilst the other major clubs were obliged to fetch in bulldozers and undertake major work.

And just like when one starts a project on one room in one's house, the rest of these club's grounds looked tired so more work was commenced to modernise the rest of it.

And by the time anyone at Everton took notice, all these grounds were making our once palatial home look like the run down pile of a faded aristocrat without the money to upkeep and improve it.

Goodison had become Woodison by the turn of the century and I am afraid the die was cast.

Spot on that - i'm sure i recall reading somewhere the rationale used by the board for only building the Park End as a single tier and the upshot was trying to do things on the cheap - it appears nothing has changed.

I think i'd like to see two things happen

1) We formally employ some independent company to actively sell the club (may result in nothing but at least would counter the "keeping the train set argument").
2) We start to set aside some money each year (no matter how little) for new stadium/goodison redevelopment - at least give hope that we have a plan to progress even though it may take some time. Would also provide some credibility with potential partners.

 

[davek]

Some very interesting points being made and actually far more common ground among a wide range of supporters than we've seen previously.

To re-iterate and add to what I said last night.

The club is in the position it is in due to the chronic under-investment since the start of the Premier League 23 years ago.

Performances on the pitch have to some extent masked this, but (i) over performance relative to resources is not sustainable over the long term, (ii) the levels previously reached are still not high enough given our standing in the game and the expectation of fans and (iii) the resource gap between Everton and our peers grow greater each year.

The key to sustainable success and development in the team, the stadium and our commercial performance is capital.

We cannot grow Everton out of revenues alone, especially when the revenues of our peers are growing at a faster rate than ours. If we continue this strategy we will continue our gradual decline.

The only solution is a significant injection of capital to develop the team, the stadium move or redevelopment of Goodison, and working capital to increase commercial revenues.

The capital can only realistically come from three sources, the existing shareholders, the introduction of new shareholders (or a combination of both) or a sale of the club to individuals or a corporation that can provide that funding.

It really is that stark and simple.

We know that those solutions are NOT on the table though. They wont invest, they wont dilute their shareholding, and they wont sell.

The key here, imo (and what keeps those options off the table) is that Kenwright is being allowed to retain a control over the club because that coincides with the interests of people outside the club who (lets not be coy about it) prop it up - through the buying of Gregg's shares via a proxy or by providing loans. That wont change in a hurry. Saggers implied to you last night that it might do with the coming on stream of even greater amounts of tv cash. I cant see that. I dont see Everton's sale without a resolution to the stadium issue (Kirkby was probably what got these outsiders involved in the first place and another 'Kirkby' will be required to see them leave). And I dont see extra revenue going the way of a stadium fund to resolve the issue. As Elstone has hammered home time and time again - Everton require private and public sector partners to make a new stadium a runner. Those forces wont touch Everton - there's not trust in the organisation and there's no giveaways now from LAs. But they can live with that, because the asset they've hitched up to is appreciating its value with these new tv deals and they can afford to wait and see if that environment fundamentally changes.


The only fly in the ointment for them is Kenwright and his well being. In the event that deteriorates I suspect that the strategy of these people is to to wipe out the £48M debt and go for a sale. And that's maybe what we're seeing now this summer: the first chunk out of that £48M being taken away. It fits in with the news of BKs illness.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Anyone thinking that a widespread boycott of the game is even remotely likely in the current situation has got rocks in their head.

People aren't going to give up using their season tickets in vast numbers because we've not spent enough money in this window or sorted the ground issue out yet. Never gonna happen.

The only option is to keep the issue in the media and hope that it prompts the right questions being asked of Kenwright and Co.

 

[blueboy1945]

Some very interesting points being made and actually far more common ground among a wide range of supporters than we've seen previously.

To re-iterate and add to what I said last night.

The club is in the position it is in due to the chronic under-investment since the start of the Premier League 23 years ago.

Performances on the pitch have to some extent masked this, but (i) over performance relative to resources is not sustainable over the long term, (ii) the levels previously reached are still not high enough given our standing in the game and the expectation of fans and (iii) the resource gap between Everton and our peers grow greater each year.

The key to sustainable success and development in the team, the stadium and our commercial performance is capital.

We cannot grow Everton out of revenues alone, especially when the revenues of our peers are growing at a faster rate than ours. If we continue this strategy we will continue our gradual decline.

The only solution is a significant injection of capital to develop the team, the stadium move or redevelopment of Goodison, and working capital to increase commercial revenues.

The capital can only realistically come from three sources, the existing shareholders, the introduction of new shareholders (or a combination of both) or a sale of the club to individuals or a corporation that can provide that funding.

It really is that stark and simple.

Completely agree with you Mr Esk and would have enjoyed hearing more from you last night on Talksport.
What do you think is the forward plan that the current major shareholders have, given that they are all reaching their "golden years" and have little to do with the day to day running of the club?

 

[Bluesnapper]

Oh..you mean the bit about getting professionals to sell the club, thats the only aim? How do small demonstrations and birthday cakes help to achieve that? Mind you, you're probably not the right person to ask, are you, not being involved ?

As I thought you havent read the links I put in front of you.

As for small demonstrations proves that you havent seen the videos either.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Bluesnapper]

If the echo held a snap poll today the vast majority would want them out. I think what is lost on fans sometime is that each and every fan does,nt need to join a group, they can take individual actions or sa maller group actions but all with the same purpose.

Time is really up for this lot now.

The snap polls on the sites over the years have grown more to the anti board point of views.

On Kipper the polls they had were circa 70%.

The thread that was closed on here finished around 80% and the one in situ now is pushing 90%.

 

[tim gabbott]

Might have worked 10/15 years ago, but even if attendances dropped to 20k, the drop in revenue would be minimal compared to the TV money. It might embarass the board a bit, and they might do something vaguely conciliatory, but they wouldn't just walk because of it, why would they ?

Normally it's easier to influence from within when you're having some sort of dialogue. With our board, that seems unlikely. If, as a fan base, we ever get whiff of someone being interested in the club, that's the time to exert pressure in any way possible.

To get any info about possible interested parties, you probably need inside info, hence the need, however unpalatable it might seem, to have some sort of relationship with people high up in the club hierarchy.

Is there a link to listen to it all I've listen to esk link