Everton "special" Talksport 9:00pm Monday 10th Aug 2015

[LostLegend]

Some interesting points last night.
Especially saying that most Evertonians don't want the club to owned by some faceless oil tycoon, but would rather have someone with the business acumen to move Everton forward in a manner relevant to our stature.
A sentiment I can get behind.

Also, @the esk silky voice gave me a semi

 

[deipnosophist]

Certainly an interesting read, but it had me wondering a bit about something @the esk said about capital being more important than revenue. I was thinking of the most successful teams in Europe over the past few years. Barca are self-funded, Bayern are self-funded, Man Utd are self-funded, as are Arsenal and Real Madrid also.

Those teams have managed to dominate their domestic leagues and European competitions without having to rely on capital from outside, but instead on the revenue they've generated as businesses.

Now I'll gladly confess that the club have probably been incredibly bad at raising our revenue, but it got me wondering whether we can grow the club by growing revenues. Obviously one of the reasons why we're clamouring for external capital is to build a new stadium, so I had a look at two northern clubs with much larger grounds than us (Newcastle and Sunderland).

This is how revenue breaks down for last year

Revenue £120.5 (EFC), £95.9m (NFC), £101m (SFC)
Gate receipts £19.3m (EFC), £27.8m (NFC), £15.7m (SFC)
Commercial £8.4m (EFC), £17.1m (NFC), £8.4m (SFC)

So despite Newcastle and Sunderland both having average gates several thousand higher than us, their overall revenue is considerably lower, and in Sunderland's case, even their gate receipts are below ours. It's not immediately obvious just how commercially beneficial having a new stadium would be for us, baring in mind the huge costs of building one.

...the fundamental tenet of your post questions the 'build it and they will come' axiom - and I concur. The claim toward necessary capital injection that I endorse, finds nexus on the playing field. Everton needs to invest in its team initially, infrastructural considerations are presently, and very necessarily, pursuant of this...a new stadium's an egg of a successful football's chicken (imo)
We have got to build a great team first, not a great stadium.
But regardless of the 'which comes first, the chicken or the egg' conundrum, our board is guilty of heinous stationary inertia. I can forgive them fiscal conservatism til recent times, but the new TV revenues should provide them significant investment fortitude. They need now to put up...or get the eff out.

 

[Steve Wigan]

A few points about last nights Collymore debate. I thought Dave(?) Kelly(The Blue Union?)came over well and reasonable and it occured to me that it might be that his problem is the lunatic fringe of his 'members' A more structured Blue Union or a re launch under a different name with clearly defined published objectives might achieve more.
Collymore in his 'man of the people' persona kept shouting 'weres the money gone since the Prem started'.....presumably it was not possible for him to check back on the annual accounts,this may have answered his question. I say 'may' ...his suggestion last night seemed to be that it was being stockpiled for the benefit of the directors when they got their big sale. Stockpiled were, Stan ? TalkSport would be very quick to stop him making any specific accusations of wrongdoing.
There is absolutely no problem with people asking questions of the board about the future of the club...football clubs may well be a business these days more than anything, but they still have a moral responsibility to the community that supports them, and this needs to always be seen to be the case. This goes a long way beyond Everton In The Community and that sort of community based social work. If there is a groundswell of opinion that suggests irregularities, consistent mismanagement, or self serving, the directors should answer these questions transperently and as fully as possible. Better still there should be regular inter action between supporters groups and the board, but I suspect that the BU Tape debacle has set that idea back quite a long way. I said above that the directors should respond to the opinions of supporters....but this is easier said than done. The first thing that needs to be done is the re establishment of dialogue with the board...,again, the BU must take some responsibility for the earlier breakdown, the meeting with Bill K was a great opportunity to establish some sort of terms for continual dialogue. and this should still be the aim, however diffiucult. Banners and leaflets are all very well, but while the BU may be an enthusiastic bunch, they do not carry the bulk of Evertonians matchgoing or otherwise, with them in sufficient quantities to be effective. The BU or a new group should make its first aim to get the majority of supporters behind them enthusiastically or at least supportively, and this has a chance of being done if the published aims are clear, and appeal to a wide range of supporters.In other words,BU, be too volatile, rebellious, or lunatic, and you'll frighten off the large core of support that you need.
Although the usual suspects like to call me a pro Kenwright supporter, I have always maintained that I am merely an observer, and speak as I see. What I do not like(and I'm sure I'm not alone in this) is 'debates' which degenerate into name calling, ranting, and point scoring. This is an important issue, and opinions need to be based on facts, not on hearsay, pub talk, chinese whispers, or simply dislike of a person.After one game this season, we stand 8th/9th in the league and the players showed a lot of fight late on against Watford. We have no devine right to be in the top four or six, but we are capable of getting one of those positions , with support for the team on the field and the manager. Everyone has the right to criticise the board, but pleae support the team ! COYB

 

[davek]

A few points about last nights Collymore debate. I thought Dave(?) Kelly(The Blue Union?)came over well and reasonable and it occured to me that it might be that his problem is the lunatic fringe of his 'members' A more structured Blue Union or a re launch under a different name with clearly defined published objectives might achieve more.
Collymore in his 'man of the people' persona kept shouting 'weres the money gone since the Prem started'.....presumably it was not possible for him to check back on the annual accounts,this may have answered his question. I say 'may' ...his suggestion last night seemed to be that it was being stockpiled for the benefit of the directors when they got their big sale. Stockpiled were, Stan ? TalkSport would be very quick to stop him making any specific accusations of wrongdoing.
There is absolutely no problem with people asking questions of the board about the future of the club...football clubs may well be a business these days more than anything, but they still have a moral responsibility to the community that supports them, and this needs to always be seen to be the case. This goes a long way beyond Everton In The Community and that sort of community based social work. If there is a groundswell of opinion that suggests irregularities, consistent mismanagement, or self serving, the directors should answer these questions transperently and as fully as possible. Better still there should be regular inter action between supporters groups and the board, but I suspect that the BU Tape debacle has set that idea back quite a long way. I said above that the directors should respond to the opinions of supporters....but this is easier said than done. The first thing that needs to be done is the re establishment of dialogue with the board...,again, the BU must take some responsibility for the earlier breakdown, the meeting with Bill K was a great opportunity to establish some sort of terms for continual dialogue. and this should still be the aim, however diffiucult. Banners and leaflets are all very well, but while the BU may be an enthusiastic bunch, they do not carry the bulk of Evertonians matchgoing or otherwise, with them in sufficient quantities to be effective. The BU or a new group should make its first aim to get the majority of supporters behind them enthusiastically or at least supportively, and this has a chance of being done if the published aims are clear, and appeal to a wide range of supporters.In other words,BU, be too volatile, rebellious, or lunatic, and you'll frighten off the large core of support that you need.
Although the usual suspects like to call me a pro Kenwright supporter, I have always maintained that I am merely an observer, and speak as I see. What I do not like(and I'm sure I'm not alone in this) is 'debates' which degenerate into name calling, ranting, and point scoring. This is an important issue, and opinions need to be based on facts, not on hearsay, pub talk, chinese whispers, or simply dislike of a person.After one game this season, we stand 8th/9th in the league and the players showed a lot of fight late on against Watford. We have no devine right to be in the top four or six, but we are capable of getting one of those positions , with support for the team on the field and the manager. Everyone has the right to criticise the board, but pleae support the team ! COYB

So everything would be ok with better communication between club and fans...and to do that entails having 'reasonable' people posing questions.

They have that through the so called fans forum they'd tell you.

In any case, dialogue would ensure what exactly?

Materially it would mean nothing at all. At the end of it the owners would still be the owners: a bunch of clueless clowns incapable of attracting investment and striking commercial contracts worthy of the club's status or construct a stadium.

The only way to deal with these people is not to deal with these people. Boycott the club and bring them to their knees and do that in combination with a full scale media campaign. Short term pain for long term gain.

Unpalatable to most, but it's the only way of sorting this ongoing nightmare out. If it's not taken then we go on for another decade of this at least.

 

[hullefc]

A cynical person would say that talksport saw a load of people talking about the situation on twitter and thought "hey, we'll do an hour of this in the last part of the show, when the calls to our expensive phone number usually dry up"

And to be fair to them, it worked - they filled their call list (and had people waiting on the line) the whole way through the hour

Be surprised if they revisit the topic any time soon

In 2 years time or if Talksport can arrange that 'special Everton debate, in Liverpool'. At least their listening figures will have increased so as to 'claim' we 'speak on behalf of all fans'. Great gimmick the 'one hour' in 2 years Everton special. Collymore can't do a 'special' with Villa as they have been taken over and Lerner did spend money. Can't do it with Newcastle, stadium big and have a 'rich' owner who has pumped money in. Can't do it with Spurs as they have ploughed money in and are getting a new stadium.

That leaves Everton as the 'best' avenue for him to have a go at someone. To 'prove' his 'love of English football and the 92 teams' and 'I don't like the way the game is going'. I didn't buy it last time and I don't buy this one either.

Collymore has had a go at Chelsea over trying to 'cherry pick' Stones. But will say nothing to his fellow presenters, who are in the forefront of 'promoting' the top 4 and LFC interests. And who by varying degrees have all 'cherry picked' young players and loaned them out.

Thanks Stan for the 'hour long special' but I will listen to your next programme for the in depth 'exposure' of all the 'cherry pickers' in English football.

 

[dannythomas89]

Thanks

http://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1439229600

The last hour is about us. 21.00-22.00.

 

[Moomin]

With three weeks to go in this window (a window I fully expect Stones to leave in, btw) and having spent a paltry £4M so far, you'd have to be daft not to realise that this season has been chosen by the owners to tackle debt. In other words, they're determined to increase the value of their own assets (paying down the debt THEY ran up in the first place) rather than invest into the team.

I doubt they are even paying the debt down. It's usually soon we take out a new loan from Vibrac so we will make a few signings and everyone will be happy again until we reach this scenario again.

The new TV deals keep giving them a lifeline to prolong this pain.

We need to organically grow our commercial revenues, not survive by virtue of TV money. Shame we never got an update on the asking price, probably in excess of 150 million.

 

[ToffeeDan]

Anyone who thinks that owners are not in it for their own benefit - irrespective of some level of sentiment which relates to people like Kenwright and to a lesser extent people like Ashley (Newcastle fan) - is sorely missing the point. If Kenwright is such a berk how come he's had countless theatre productions in the West End etc. - he might like to come across as a bit dim (and frankly it might not be a complete act or it's just to calm the masses down perhaps) but he knows what's what, he's heard it enough times from the fans and, one hopes those significant others involved in the running of the club. It's about time he did something constructive.

 

[deipnosophist]

A few points about last nights Collymore debate. I thought Dave(?) Kelly(The Blue Union?)came over well and reasonable and it occured to me that it might be that his problem is the lunatic fringe of his 'members' A more structured Blue Union or a re launch under a different name with clearly defined published objectives might achieve more.
Collymore in his 'man of the people' persona kept shouting 'weres the money gone since the Prem started'.....presumably it was not possible for him to check back on the annual accounts,this may have answered his question. I say 'may' ...his suggestion last night seemed to be that it was being stockpiled for the benefit of the directors when they got their big sale. Stockpiled were, Stan ? TalkSport would be very quick to stop him making any specific accusations of wrongdoing.
There is absolutely no problem with people asking questions of the board about the future of the club...football clubs may well be a business these days more than anything, but they still have a moral responsibility to the community that supports them, and this needs to always be seen to be the case. This goes a long way beyond Everton In The Community and that sort of community based social work. If there is a groundswell of opinion that suggests irregularities, consistent mismanagement, or self serving, the directors should answer these questions transperently and as fully as possible. Better still there should be regular inter action between supporters groups and the board, but I suspect that the BU Tape debacle has set that idea back quite a long way. I said above that the directors should respond to the opinions of supporters....but this is easier said than done. The first thing that needs to be done is the re establishment of dialogue with the board...,again, the BU must take some responsibility for the earlier breakdown, the meeting with Bill K was a great opportunity to establish some sort of terms for continual dialogue. and this should still be the aim, however diffiucult. Banners and leaflets are all very well, but while the BU may be an enthusiastic bunch, they do not carry the bulk of Evertonians matchgoing or otherwise, with them in sufficient quantities to be effective. The BU or a new group should make its first aim to get the majority of supporters behind them enthusiastically or at least supportively, and this has a chance of being done if the published aims are clear, and appeal to a wide range of supporters.In other words,BU, be too volatile, rebellious, or lunatic, and you'll frighten off the large core of support that you need.
Although the usual suspects like to call me a pro Kenwright supporter, I have always maintained that I am merely an observer, and speak as I see. What I do not like(and I'm sure I'm not alone in this) is 'debates' which degenerate into name calling, ranting, and point scoring. This is an important issue, and opinions need to be based on facts, not on hearsay, pub talk, chinese whispers, or simply dislike of a person.After one game this season, we stand 8th/9th in the league and the players showed a lot of fight late on against Watford. We have no devine right to be in the top four or six, but we are capable of getting one of those positions , with support for the team on the field and the manager. Everyone has the right to criticise the board, but pleae support the team ! COYB

...a well articulated post mate. And I do not disagree with its fundamental underscores. I guess what rankles with me currently, (and I spend a bit of time on financial analyses) is that Everton stakeholders are, at the present, being thrown a marrow-less bone to chew on, when there could be so much better financially fleshed fare on offer . The Everton Board is taking me for some thankful serf...and I'm not having that.

 

[deipnosophist]

I doubt they are even paying the debt down. It's usually soon we take out a new loan from Vibrac so we will make a few signings and everyone will be happy again until we reach this scenario again.

The new TV deals keep giving them a lifeline to prolong this pain.

We need to organically grow our commercial revenues, not survive by virtue of TV money. Shame we never got an update on the asking price, probably in excess of 150 million.

that organic growth requires fertilisation...aka an equity injection

 

[Steve Wigan]

So everything would be ok with better communication between club and fans...and to do that entails having 'reasonable' people posing questions.

They have that through the so called fans forum they'd tell you.

In any case, dialogue would ensure what exactly?

Materially it would mean nothing at all. At the end of it the owners would still be the owners: a bunch of clueless clowns incapable of attracting investment and striking commercial contracts worthy of the club's status or construct a stadium.

The only way to deal with these people is not to deal with these people. Boycott the club and bring them to their knees and do that in combination with a full scale media campaign. Short term pain for long term gain.

Unpalatable to most, but it's the only way of sorting this ongoing nightmare out. If it's not taken then we go on for another decade of this at least.

Thanks, Dave for your response. You certainly have a point, and I didn't say it would be easy. Either way , answers would be needed, sooner or later, and personally I have doubts that declaring war would ever result in a complete victory. The point being that as far as we know, laws have not been broken. Saggers made this point very clearly last night...the twenty clubs(each owning a 20th of the Prem) will simply protect their own interests.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

...the fundamental tenet of your post questions the 'build it and they will come' axiom - and I concur. The claim toward necessary capital injection that I endorse, finds nexus on the playing field. Everton needs to invest in its team initially, infrastructural considerations are presently, and very necessarily, pursuant of this...a new stadium's an egg of a successful football's chicken (imo)
We have got to build a great team first, not a great stadium.
But regardless of the 'which comes first, the chicken or the egg' conundrum, our board is guilty of heinous stationary inertia. I can forgive them fiscal conservatism til recent times, but the new TV revenues should provide them significant investment fortitude. They need now to put up...or get the eff out.

Re the team, I suppose that's the thing isn't it? We know that we can't buy such a team, so the alternative is to build it from within. We have some super young players in the team at the moment, plus an exciting crop just below the first team.

Might it be that the club have decided to put all their eggs into the youth team as a route to progress?

 

[Moomin]

that organic growth requires fertilisation...aka an equity injection

Aye, considering they haven't invested a single penny or prepared to do a shares right issue to bring some new capital into the club we will carry on threading water.

It's been the ability of our managers to buy wisely with limited funds which have kept us in the top half of the table.

 

[Bluesnapper]

A few points about last nights Collymore debate. I thought Dave(?) Kelly(The Blue Union?)came over well and reasonable and it occured to me that it might be that his problem is the lunatic fringe of his 'members' A more structured Blue Union or a re launch under a different name with clearly defined published objectives might achieve more.

The BU doesnt have any 'members'.

Anyone can agree in a post re the aims of the BU and then go onto feck and jeff all and as a consequence the BU gets the flack. You know that it happened in the days of the Kirkby fiasco and IP addresses were traced back to L4.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Re the team, I suppose that's the thing isn't it? We know that we can't buy such a team, so the alternative is to build it from within. We have some super young players in the team at the moment, plus an exciting crop just below the first team.

Might it be that the club have decided to put all their eggs into the youth team as a route to progress?

Thank God for our Youth set up over the last twenty years,who knows the constant source of talent breaking into the first team may well have kept the club in a better situation than we could envisage.