Everton Summer transfers 2021

[catcherintherye]

Well yeah, that's exactly what i'm talking about. That's why I said 'ideal world' rather than 'world where things are slightly different but not that much'. The point was that we could theoretically improve on every single player we have, but realistically we're not going to.

I think you're a lot closer on this than most realise.

I actually think the "playing fifa"/football manager stuff is actually more a criticism at those of us who have played both, and think you can apply the same logic that you would use on a computer game to managing a team in reality. In those games you get a budget, you get players skills all nicely lined up with numbers attached, and can see which area you need most. It can be treated as an academic exercise and you can prioritise which world class player you want next in the best position.

Life is very different to this. A first team manager just wants better players. It's rare now that most look beyond that. If an improvement is available, in any position, they are going to want to sign them.

I've watched a couple of football documentaries now, Sunderland and Spurs in particular and whats really clear to me, is it's still not run too differently from my local club runs itself. If a better player is available, you go and get him. It's probably a criticism of football, but thats the reality of it.

I do get that people also want a longer term view, but they also tend to be the people who moan the most of the results aren't right in the short term.

I can tell you now, a manager would rather have 3 players who improve the team in random positions, than 5 Iwobi's who provide cover for the positions that we wanted, but ultimately don't make the team better.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's not really about buying 30 yr olds or not - if they improve us they improve us.

But we need them in the areas where we actually need players.

Now, those areas right now are wing, centre-mid and right-back - as absolute priorities (I know we could do with a goalkeeper).

Given the players we already have, those positions really all require players who are in that 22-25 bracket, not the 26-29 bracket.

A few reasons.

1. Legs, energy etc. You want a full-back to be able to get up and down all day. You want that centre-mid to be able to collect the ball and drive forward, all day. You want that winger to have pace and energy to burn to stretch teams. Bloody hell, Walcott is the template of what we need, but not the 32-year-old Walcott whose legs are going.

2. Value. It makes more sense to buy them at that age and build the team for a few years and you always have that insurance that you can get your money back. At least a fair whack. If we'd have been prudent with the Iwobi deal, for example, we'd have been able to pretty easily break even. We won't be able to on that fee, because we overpaid by a lot. But on Kean, we will be able to.

3. Age of other players in the squad. We can't have 3 players in midfield who are all in their late 20s/early 30s and expect them to play every game at full throttle and not get injured. We can't be reliant on players who may be about to lose that energy and drive (Allan, as good as he has been, has been shown up a few times this season because his legs just aren't what they were even 2 years ago).

It's an interesting post mate, but I can't help but feel Iwobi weakens rather than strengthens your argument, He fits that exact criteria, he was 22/3 when we bought him but ultimately he hasn't improve the team, and players in that age range come at a heavy premium. You get a lot less for your money as a result.

If FFP is going to scrapped (which I've always felt it would be) then the need to bring players in to sell on to comply with FFP will suffice.

We don't need a CB but if Koulibaly was available for 35m as stated we'd be mad not to consider it.

 

[trueblue84]

I'd take champions league group stages every year. Cheers

So would I, but the current squad isn't as strong as spurs, and look how badly they've stumbled. The current team wouldn't be champions League regulars... We are 8th.

 

[Jimmy Grimble]

So much easier to attract these wunderkinds when you are a recognized CL team. Buy as much quality as we can now. The long term plan can come later for me.

 

[catcherintherye]

Well they should if we want to be a successful club unless they want to go all out in 1 season for an FA Cup to try satisfy people. Lots of experience might bring immediate success (or not due to injuries and lack of form) but I don't see why people regard older = better.

Our average age went up from 24.97 to 26.52 over last season. Rodriguez, Allan, Coleman, Gylfi 30's, Doucoure, Keane, Digne, Mina, Pickford late 20's. Got a young core but we need some more.

There's no use to me bringing in people in their twilight if it doesn't work out because then they're just impossible to offload and we'll forever be stuck in the position we're in now with older players (Gylfi, Tosun etc.) we can't seem to sell.

Well our average age has gone from the youngest in the league to bout the 8th youngest. So we are not neccesarily massively young.

The counter might be, that the value available in older players means it's too good an opportunity to miss out on.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think they need to be really. It's not about going back to the start of a new 5 year plan, but I would be very concerned if we signed another load of 28-30 year olds. It would very much be a case of putting all our eggs in one basket for me.

I mean, stating they should be is a slightly different answer to that people are.

The reality is, under Silva we had a young team, and to a dgeree under Martinez too. I'll be honest I didn't see any awful lot of patience for either. My own view, is the fans will not put up with 2 years of stagnating or going backwards to get to the end point. That may well be wrong, but thats just my view. Importantly, I don't think Moshiri will either.

If thats the objective situation, I can see why managers prioritise immediacy in recruitment, whether that is right or wrong.

 

[Nymzee]

Well our average age has gone from the youngest in the league to bout the 8th youngest. So we are not neccesarily massively young.

The counter might be, that the value available in older players means it's too good an opportunity to miss out on.

What's value on players you can't possibly sell on in the future though?

 

[catcherintherye]

What's value on players you can't possibly sell on in the future though?

Yes which is a fair point. You are gambling on players in the 22-25 bracket they get markedly better though aren't you? And it is a gamble.

Under Moyes I was quite confident that would happen. I'm a lot less so now.

 

[Nymzee]

Yes which is a fair point. You are gambling on players in the 22-25 bracket they get markedly better though aren't you? And it is a gamble.

Under Moyes I was quite confident that would happen. I'm a lot less so now.

Or we buy players in the 22-25 bracket that are around the same level as these 28-30 year olds.

Like I say, for some reason, a lot of people make the age = ability assumption.

 

[BlueToff]

It's an interesting post mate, but I can't help but feel Iwobi weakens rather than strengthens your argument, He fits that exact criteria, he was 22/3 when we bought him but ultimately he hasn't improve the team, and players in that age range come at a heavy premium. You get a lot less for your money as a result.

If FFP is going to scrapped (which I've always felt it would be) then the need to bring players in to sell on to comply with FFP will suffice.

We don't need a CB but if Koulibaly was available for 35m as stated we'd be mad not to consider it.

Well that's why I stress that if we'd have been prudent with Iwobi, it would have made sense.

We bought a player the right age, and right 'potential'. So far it's not worked out. But if we'd have paid his actual value - say £20m tops - we'd have easily been able to recoup most of the fee. As it was, we massively overpaid for a player of his quality.

I'm not saying we go and get Iwobi-level players. Jonathan Ikone (believe he's 22) and Leon Bailey (23/24) are perfect examples of players for that right wing role who are definitely a step up on Iwobi and offer what we need in terms of quality and versatility. They'd cost in the same region as Iwobi, but are definitely a step up too. As much as I'd love a player like Zaha, we'd be better spending the £30m on Bailey than £45m on Zaha, for example.

Yes, if a player of Koulibaly's abilty became available then I'd be all for it. But in terms of area of priority, CB isn't one just yet IMO - we need the positions we're low on quantity/quality in first, and those roles require younger players for the reasons I stress above.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Well our average age has gone from the youngest in the league to bout the 8th youngest. So we are not neccesarily massively young.

The counter might be, that the value available in older players means it's too good an opportunity to miss out on.

To me, we can’t attract the best players at the right age. 23/26 We maybe have a better chance with ancelotti and if we got Europe. But take Grealish, he’s not coming to Everton, unless we were the only club in for him and he wanted to move and felt we had a better chance of success than villa, but in reality it’s not happening.

so we go for the 2nd & 3rd rate players in the that age group. Like iwobi, Doucoure, siggurdsson, Schneiderlin, Gomes, Tosun, Mina, Keane, Digne. In the hope they can kick on to the next level. I take that Doucoure at 27 is different than signing Digne at 24, but you get my point

So for me it’s buying talented young players. IE Godfrey, kean, Richarlison.
And even the cream of the crop of youngsters are probably out of our grasp.

And buying very good 29/30yr olds.

Until we get champions league football and start challenging I don’t see that changing.

 

[Lanolin]

I mean, stating they should be is a slightly different answer to that people are.

The reality is, under Silva we had a young team, and to a dgeree under Martinez too. I'll be honest I didn't see any awful lot of patience for either. My own view, is the fans will not put up with 2 years of stagnating or going backwards to get to the end point. That may well be wrong, but thats just my view. Importantly, I don't think Moshiri will either.

If thats the objective situation, I can see why managers prioritise immediacy in recruitment, whether that is right or wrong.

Yeah, as I said, I don't think we need to go back to the drawing board, signing a load of teenagers and saying we need to give them 5 years to come good. I think we've got to focus on signing players who are good enough to improve us but who aren't already on a downward curve. I've said before, I feel like we've got so used to wasting money in recent years that people have started to believe that there's no value out there. There is though. I don't think we need 4/5 world class players, a couple more players like Godfrey would be a good start, just players who come in and perform to a good standard while hinting at further development down the line. Much of our starting XI is already 28+ going into next season, adding to that is a big, big gamble, and is likely to lead to yet another massive squad overhaul after another 2/3 years. I just don't think it's sustainable to do that.

 

[catcherintherye]

Or we buy players in the 22-25 bracket that are around the same level as these 28-30 year olds.

Like I say, for some reason, a lot of people make the age = ability assumption.

They would be a lot more expensive though and not want to come.

 

[Nymzee]

They would be a lot more expensive though and not want to come.

Not all of them are and it's not really right to assume they wouldn't want to be here. I also don't think, if this was the case, we then just give up and build a squad of ticking bomb dinosaurs.

 

[Lanolin]

To me, we can’t attract the best players at the right age. 23/26 We maybe have a better chance with ancelotti and if we got Europe. But take Grealish, he’s not coming to Everton, unless we were the only club in for him and he wanted to move and felt we had a better chance of success than villa, but in reality it’s not happening.

so we go for the 2nd & 3rd rate players in the that age group. Like iwobi, Doucoure, siggurdsson, Schneiderlin, Gomes, Tosun, Mina, Keane, Digne. In the hope they can kick on to the next level. I take that Doucoure at 27 is different than signing Digne at 24, but you get my point

So for me it’s buying talented young players. IE Godfrey, kean, Richarlison.
And even the cream of the crop of youngsters are probably out of our grasp.

And buying very good 29/30yr olds.

Until we get champions league football and start challenging I don’t see that changing.

There's definitely a middle ground. There are good players out there who would improve us and are aged 23-26. They might not be the very best in the world, but they really don't need to be. We're 8th in the PL, you don't have to be Messi to be a significant upgrade on what we have.