Everton Summer transfers 2021

[mightymoyes]

Anything of note. Come back to me when he does something outside a farmer league.

can i enquire where are the non-farmer leagues?

 

[MACCA75]

I thought Klassen was alright tbh, was always playing quick little give and goes and one-twos to players who would just stand there and make him look stupid.

In a team with movement he’s probably quite useful.

 

[Lanolin]

You only think so due to hindsight.

Look at the career stats of Giakoumatis as an example. 3 goals in 50 games in Greece, 29 in 33 in Holland last season. It's a crap shoot of a league, really is.

It's not hindsight at all. It's not a case of saying the Dutch league is good, it's a case of saying it's no different to watching a player anywhere in the world, you have to look at what they can/can't actually do, not just how many goals they're scoring. It's the same as someone like Ellis Simms here, you don't just say well he's outscored Mason Greenwood at youth level so he must be a better player than him (unless you're at primary school), you look at what both of them actually have in their locker and how that might transfer to senior football. It's honestly the most basic thing in the world, I can't believe we're even having the conversation.

 

[wellillwill]

only if he plays certain amount of games for the 1st team, wins england caps etc etc

It almost as if some of these people have never signed a young talent on FM.

 

[Zatara]

Ah there's the thing though - 'identifiable' AND 'transferrable'. The problem with the Dutch league is exactly that.

Vincent Janssen and Ruud Van Nistelrooy were both six foot plus goalscoring machines in Holland; one was much, much better than the other, but put them in the same team in the same era in Holland and you'd have massive difficulties guessing which was which. Afonso Alves' goalscoring record was better than pretty much anyone ever from that league, on paper he looked a no brainer, in practice he was horrendous when put in a stronger league. It's a gamble every time.

Klaassen was obviously not cut out for english football...i made countless posts about it at the time.

Again, Chelsea seemed sold on Ziyech (like a lot of posters here) and i said i didnt think he would cut it.

Current players like Neres and Antony are a different kettle of fish as they have the mentality and determination as well as the adaptability having come from Brazil.

Likewise, Lozano of course was played out of position by Ancelotti at Napoli and alot of people thought he had flopped despite some decent effort on his part. Clearly now its obvious hes a top player.

I think when were looking at Holland it must be at u21 age level or a South American import who has an outstanding element to his game.

 

[Tubey]

It's not hindsight at all. It's not a case of saying the Dutch league is good, it's a case of saying it's no different to watching a player anywhere in the world, you have to look at what they can/can't actually do, not how many goals they're scoring. It's the same as someone like Ellis Simms here, you don't just say well he's outscored Mason Greenwood at youth level so he must be a better player than him (unless you're at primary school), you look at what both of them actually have in their locker and how that might transfer to senior football. It's honestly the most basic thing in the world, I can't believe we're even having the conversation.

That's common sense, but the point I'm making is the evidence you have to make the decision is much more shaky in leagues like Holland than it is in many others. You can scout a player and think they'll be able to adapt but because the standards are so low there's no way to be sure. It isn't like a youth prospect, where you bring them through the ranks steadily in age groups, reserves etc. and give them a shot; we're talking about spending £20m+ on a player based on what he's doing in a poor league.

So Denzel Dumfries as an example. He'll look incredible in Holland, pace, bombing on, putting crosses in over the heads of sub-par defenders for over-qualified strikers to attack. But what happens when he's asked to defend? What happens when he needs to play on the counter? Suddenly you have unanswered questions and you're paying £20m to find the answer out.

 

[MikeH72]

I thought Klassen was alright tbh, was always playing quick little give and goes and one-twos to players who would just stand there and make him look stupid.

In a team with movement he’s probably quite useful.

I’ve never seen a player look more terrified of receiving a pass, ever.

 

[Tubey]

Klaassen was obviously not cut out for english football...i made countless posts about it at the time.

Again, Chelsea seemed sold on Ziyech (like a lot of posters here) and i said i didnt think he would cut it.

Current players like Neres and Antony are a different kettle of fish as they have the mentality and determination as well as the adaptability having come from Brazil.

Likewise, Lozano of course was played out of position by Ancelotti at Napoli and alot of people thought he had flopped despite some decent effort on his part. Clearly now its obvious hes a top player.

I think when were looking at Holland it must be at u21 age level or a South American import who has an outstanding element to his game.

It's more having a cost limit on speculative punts there. No more than £10-15m or whatever. We've thrown so much money away that we can't be doing much more.

So Dumfries, fine, might be good - just don't pay silly money to find out.

 

[Zatara]

That's common sense, but the point I'm making is the evidence you have to make the decision is much more shaky in leagues like Holland than it is in many others. You can scout a player and think they'll be able to adapt but because the standards are so low there's no way to be sure. It isn't like a youth prospect, where you bring them through the ranks steadily in age groups, reserves etc. and give them a shot; we're talking about spending £20m+ on a player based on what he's doing in a poor league.

So Denzel Dumfries as an example. He'll look incredible in Holland, pace, bombing on, putting crosses in over the heads of sub-par defenders for over-qualified strikers to attack. But what happens when he's asked to defend? What happens when he needs to play on the counter? Suddenly you have unanswered questions and you're paying £20m to find the answer out.

I think Dumfries is €15mil so about £12.8mil.

I think its a proper punt...big, athletic, strong, quick...

Poor on the ball and seems more like a CB playing RB to me.

Hes not exactly Lilian Thuram thats for sure...

 

[Cool_Blue]

Gylfi was on Walsh's watch.

It doesn’t matter who brought him here. I think the point is: they’re stealing a living

 

[Brisan123]

Abar?

It’s where you buy pints

 

[Zatara]

It's more having a cost limit on speculative punts there. No more than £10-15m or whatever. We've thrown so much money away that we can't be doing much more.

So Dumfries, fine, might be good - just don't pay silly money to find out.

Have you seen much Dutch football recently?

I think we could get Neres for £15mil. He did his knee in and was out for almost a year...came back for a couple of months...then got a different injury for 6 weeks or so...and came back.

Fantastic technically and his crossing would bring goals.

As for others at £10-15mil maybe Ihattaren who fell out with the management. Highly rated but has weight issues lol.

Otherwise Gravenberch and Antony are the two to get but theyre £30mil players at least and going to the top.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I thought Klassen was alright tbh, was always playing quick little give and goes and one-twos to players who would just stand there and make him look stupid.

In a team with movement he’s probably quite useful.

We tried to play him as either a deep lying creative mid or a number 10 when he was not very good at either. He wanted to be doing the Lampard role, rotating possession quickly, give and goes, then arriving in the box to add a goal threat or shooting from distance. Koeman stuck Gueye and Schneiderlin 20 yards behind him then the slowest front line in the world ahead of him and basically asked him to do everything.

I’m not saying he would have even worked if we’d used him properly, but Van Der Beek to me looks very similar, wants to be doing the Lampard role of getting into those positions but the rest of the team wants him to be Fernandes and carve a defence open with a passing range he just doesn’t have.

 

[Tubey]

Have you seen much Dutch football recently?

I think we could get Neres for £15mil. He did his knee in and was out for almost a year...came back for a couple of months...then got a different injury for 6 weeks or so...and came back.

Fantastic technically and his crossing would bring goals.

As for others at £10-15mil maybe Ihattaren who fell out with the management. Highly rated but has weight issues lol.

Otherwise Gravenberch and Antony are the two to get but theyre £30mil players at least and going to the top.

Not that much, Everton have soured me on football in general lately tbh - but it's a league where the two outstanding creative talents in terms of assists both flopped at Watford and Southampton, so I'd simply advocate caution.

 

[Lanolin]

That's common sense, but the point I'm making is the evidence you have to make the decision is much more shaky in leagues like Holland than it is in many others. You can scout a player and think they'll be able to adapt but because the standards are so low there's no way to be sure. It isn't like a youth prospect, where you bring them through the ranks steadily in age groups, reserves etc. and give them a shot; we're talking about spending £20m+ on a player based on what he's doing in a poor league.

So Denzel Dumfries as an example. He'll look incredible in Holland, pace, bombing on, putting crosses in over the heads of sub-par defenders for over-qualified strikers to attack. But what happens when he's asked to defend? What happens when he needs to play on the counter? Suddenly you have unanswered questions and you're paying £20m to find the answer out.

I think that's a fair comment when talking about us, as fans watching a bit of the game on TV or looking at the goalscoring charts or whatever, but it's literally what scouts are paid for. Obviously you'll always get ones that you call wrong, but the vast majority of calls made by scouts should be at least relatively sound (ie they might not turn out quite as good as you thought but they aren't a complete flop). I do some cricket scouting and I would back myself to go to a tournament and be able to pick the 5/6 best prospects there, regardless of the standard they're playing against or for. As I say, it's not an exact science but it's really not just a lottery, you can identify key traits if you know what you're looking for. Just looking at the example you used yourself, van Nistelrooy was signed by United for a club record fee when they were one of the very best sides around. Janssen was signed 16 years later for less money, by a Spurs side who were just starting to break into the top 4, with a view to him being back up to Harry Kane. I think it's pretty clear that the professionals could tell which one of them was better, even if we couldn't.