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Everton Youth Teams Thread

Eggs said:
...thats an interesting comparison with Vaughan.

Going back to Ellis Simms and our other Academy strikers in general, I had a quick look at a number of when young forwards who have broken through with us. I think Simms is currently 19 years and 3months:

Wayne Rooney debut @ 16.
James Vaughan @ 16
Franny Jeffers 16
Victor Anichebe 16
Phil Jevons 19yrs 5 months.
Anthony Gordon 18yrs 11mths.

The trend suggests that when we have a very good one, they are involved from an early age.
Click to expand...

Yes good point.

I think there are a few points here though. Firstly the age for a debut has generally increased. It's also worth noting most of the debuts made above were very much the exception to the norm even back then, we had a glut of promoting strikers (you can throw Michael Branch and Nick Chadwick in too). So generally players can break through a little later.

I would also say with Simms, and at the risk of being blunt, I am quite surprised he's as close as where he is now. I watched him at 16/17 and I really wasn't sure of him at all. He seemed to lack a lot of the basics (knowing how to run, where to run, how to use physicality etc). I didn't have him down as a lad who'd get near the first team.

He really kicked on in the 2nd year and has had a good year this year working with Unsworth. He needs a loan I think where he gets booted and toughened up and finds his own solutions to that.

On a side note I watched our win against Sunderland last night and what a footballer Jeffers was. Pace, composure, movement, time on the ball, vision, anticipation etc. Miles ahead of any of our attacking players. What a waste that lads career was.
 
Do we need to completely change the way we operate our youth set up.
Is it working in its current guise.
Is It is not producing enough quality players or is it in compared to others.
Should we maybe be looking at getting in more players from around Europe when they are 17 or 18 and developing them.
 
catcherintherye said:
Yes good point.

I think there are a few points here though. Firstly the age for a debut has generally increased. It's also worth noting most of the debuts made above were very much the exception to the norm even back then, we had a glut of promoting strikers (you can throw Michael Branch and Nick Chadwick in too). So generally players can break through a little later.

I would also say with Simms, and at the risk of being blunt, I am quite surprised he's as close as where he is now. I watched him at 16/17 and I really wasn't sure of him at all. He seemed to lack a lot of the basics (knowing how to run, where to run, how to use physicality etc). I didn't have him down as a lad who'd get near the first team.

He really kicked on in the 2nd year and has had a good year this year working with Unsworth. He needs a loan I think where he gets booted and toughened up and finds his own solutions to that.

On a side note I watched our win against Sunderland last night and what a footballer Jeffers was. Pace, composure, movement, time on the ball, vision, anticipation etc. Miles ahead of any of our attacking players. What a waste that lads career was.
Click to expand...
It’s funny how you remember things, Simms got some stick in his first appearance for us that streamed pre season Cee Cup or something. I’m sticking with Simms, well at least until we sell him to Rochdale. Football wise he’s been on a slow but steady upward curve, there’s no doubt players like Gordon have picked things up quicker and developed faster . He’s come on again this season in areas where he didn’t show last season - controlling the ball from goal kicks, holding the ball up , playing in another player, turning with the ball and even heading. Last season he didn’t need to do any of this, pass the ball through , he’d run onto it , hold off a defender , score , job done. Hes the kind of player lower league clubs would like to get on loan, and that’s the dilemma , he needs mens football but equally needs a lot of further specific coaching .
 
Eggs said:
...thats an interesting comparison with Vaughan.

Going back to Ellis Simms and our other Academy strikers in general, I had a quick look at a number of when young forwards who have broken through with us. I think Simms is currently 19 years and 3months:

Wayne Rooney debut @ 16.
James Vaughan @ 16
Franny Jeffers 16
Victor Anichebe 16
Phil Jevons 19yrs 5 months.
Anthony Gordon 18yrs 11mths.

The trend suggests that when we have a very good one, they are involved from an early age.
Click to expand...

Was about to remind us of this when we saying how well a player is doing in his age group.
The league might be different but players that really make it, are in and around the first team by 18, not shooting the lights out in their age category.

As said many times.. to know who’s got the best shot to make it:
Which of our boys is the best in their age group in the national side?

my other criteria isn’t being met by any of them but that for me could be our system, which I feel is broken. We have created a bottleneck that needs thinning out more than the first team even!
 

blueloon said:
It’s funny how you remember things, Simms got some stick in his first appearance for us that streamed pre season Cee Cup or something. I’m sticking with Simms, well at least until we sell him to Rochdale. Football wise he’s been on a slow but steady upward curve, there’s no doubt players like Gordon have picked things up quicker and developed faster . He’s come on again this season in areas where he didn’t show last season - controlling the ball from goal kicks, holding the ball up , playing in another player, turning with the ball and even heading. Last season he didn’t need to do any of this, pass the ball through , he’d run onto it , hold off a defender , score , job done. Hes the kind of player lower league clubs would like to get on loan, and that’s the dilemma , he needs mens football but equally needs a lot of further specific coaching .
Click to expand...

Yes I remember seeing some games around that period and I always thought Simms played within himself. Knowing what we do now he probably lacked confidence a bit.

I think he has really improved over the last 2 years, In the 2nd year as you say for the 18's just dominated opponents. And he has come in on the reserves this year. I'm surprised he's played so many games but his all-round game has got better. I think a loan would really suit Simms.

As for Gordon, I think he's always been ahead of Simms to be honest. He'd been in the 18's as a 16 year old and even played some reserve team football as an under 17. What I like about Gordon is that he seems to be continuing to grow and looks like he may end up around 6 ft as well. Reminds me a lot of Dowell though, but probably a bit quicker. What he probably needs is Ancelotti to stay for 5 years ( as Ancelotti likes him).
 
catcherintherye said:
Yes I remember seeing some games around that period and I always thought Simms played within himself. Knowing what we do now he probably lacked confidence a bit.

I think he has really improved over the last 2 years, In the 2nd year as you say for the 18's just dominated opponents. And he has come in on the reserves this year. I'm surprised he's played so many games but his all-round game has got better. I think a loan would really suit Simms.

As for Gordon, I think he's always been ahead of Simms to be honest. He'd been in the 18's as a 16 year old and even played some reserve team football as an under 17. What I like about Gordon is that he seems to be continuing to grow and looks like he may end up around 6 ft as well. Reminds me a lot of Dowell though, but probably a bit quicker. What he probably needs is Ancelotti to stay for 5 years ( as Ancelotti likes him).
Click to expand...

Apparently Gordon is very fast isnt he? Also from highlights here hes fond of cutting in from the left onto his right and hitting worldies.

I wonder what happens with him now with Iwobi and Bernard there...

Its becoming quite interesting there as well as RB and RW positions.

Think hes probably the only one (maybe gibson?) who will be in the first team next season from the youth team.
 
Zatara said:
Apparently Gordon is very fast isnt he? Also from highlights here hes fond of cutting in from the left onto his right and hitting worldies.

I wonder what happens with him now with Iwobi and Bernard there...

Its becoming quite interesting there as well as RB and RW positions.

Think hes probably the only one (maybe gibson?) who will be in the first team next season from the youth team.
Click to expand...

Gordon will end up a striker.
 

Zatara said:
Apparently Gordon is very fast isnt he? Also from highlights here hes fond of cutting in from the left onto his right and hitting worldies.

I wonder what happens with him now with Iwobi and Bernard there...

Its becoming quite interesting there as well as RB and RW positions.

Think hes probably the only one (maybe gibson?) who will be in the first team next season from the youth team.
Click to expand...

I think Gordon is quite quick and tricky. He's certainly quicker than Dowell, Looks quite two footed to me but clearly prefers his right.

My feeling is Gibson goes out on loan, and if the right loan comes in will be interesting to see what they do with Gordon. Ancelotti seems to like him though.
 
catcherintherye said:
I think Gordon is quite quick and tricky. He's certainly quicker than Dowell, Looks quite two footed to me but clearly prefers his right.

My feeling is Gibson goes out on loan, and if the right loan comes in will be interesting to see what they do with Gordon. Ancelotti seems to like him though.
Click to expand...

Think Gordon needs a good loan too, we'll buy more attackers this summer looking for instant success.
 

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