Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Lanolin]

Hopefully they stick to a position and focus with that.

Maybe in the end he was limited, but Tom Davies was continuously moved around; further back, box to box and a 10, and I think this harmed his development as he looked very good at 17. A different manager every year and a lot of pressure put on him didn’t help either.

Hopefully that will all be different with the new owners and Armstrong will be coming through at a good time.

I always think people look at it the wrong way round with Davies, he got moved around because he couldn’t nail down a role not the others way round. I also think a bit too much is made of those different roles, it’s not like we were asking him to be makelele one week and maradona the next, he was effectively asked to do the same things, just sometimes further forward and sometimes further back. I think in the modern game it’s very common for players to be able and be expected to fulfil different roles at different times.

 

[jerseytoffee]

I always think people look at it the wrong way round with Davies, he got moved around because he couldn’t nail down a role not the others way round. I also think a bit too much is made of those different roles, it’s not like we were asking him to be makelele one week and maradona the next, he was effectively asked to do the same things, just sometimes further forward and sometimes further back. I think in the modern game it’s very common for players to be able and be expected to fulfil different roles at different times.

We’ll never know, like I said maybe he just wasn’t good enough, but he started off as a fearless player that got forward with assists and getting goals. Ended up being the defensive midfielder alongside Andre Gomes who was terrified to pass a ball 5 yards.

For me he was handled poorly through his career here.

 

[Raino85]

….i like comparing young players to professionals just to establish what ‘type’ of player they are. It’s not suggesting a youngster will emulate that player, but it’s just thought process.

I find it a little difficult with Armstrong as he seems more classy than physical. Decent size, picks a pass and makes runs into the box to get on the end of things. My mind was drawn to a Sigurdsson ‘type’ although I’d say Armstrong looks to have a bit of pace (as per his run into the box before the nice flick for his first assist).

Guti........................... with that flick

 

[blueloon]

I always think people look at it the wrong way round with Davies, he got moved around because he couldn’t nail down a role not the others way round. I also think a bit too much is made of those different roles, it’s not like we were asking him to be makelele one week and maradona the next, he was effectively asked to do the same things, just sometimes further forward and sometimes further back. I think in the modern game it’s very common for players to be able and be expected to fulfil different roles at different times.

Your last sentence fits in with what the academy are calling Everton’s new “ game model” . Carl Darlington , head of academy coaching, describes a flexible playing style, in different formations ( 442, 343, 433) in which midfielders for example learn to play in a 2 , a 3 or a 4 across the middle . Strikers too are also asked to play different roles at different times. You can see examples in individuals. The other night , Morgan was quite far back , almost a 8 position, in linking up to help play in Clarke in the run up to the Catesby goal , with Armstrong up in the “ striker” position. Similarly for Armstrong’s 2ng goal Morgan was behind him and Armstrong was in the striker position, but Morgan returned there for his goal. Graham has played out wide in a 3 up front format , Louis Gardner , who I think of as a talented 6/8 , was playing in defence in one match. It’s positive stuff that we’re looking to get the youngsters to play different roles at different times. The shame as ever is that we’re limited to 2 mins of highlights for u18 league matches or we’d likely see more of what they’re trying to do.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Home to wolves in the next round. They squeezed past Wimbledon in the last round

 

[davep]

It's a lot easier for Liverpool because they've got the quality to carry people. The chances of a young lad coming on and costing you the game are almost nil when you're Liverpool and 2 up at Anfield with the other players they have, it's not the same here where young players are going to be expected to perform as a functional part of the team otherwise the whole thing can totally unravel.

That wasn't really my point though, I've got no interest in turning this into yet another 'Dyche and Thelwell are the pits' thread. It's just this idea that it's easy for young players to come in and play and 'they can't be any worse'. They absolutely can. I totally get that we all want them to succeed and it can be annoying seeing the same faces underperforming, but it doesn't follow that throwing a kid in at the deep end is going to make things better. People wanted Lewis Warrington playing games 2 years ago and now he's struggled to get games at both Plymouth and Leyton Orient. It was totally unfathomable how Dobbin wasn't playing, only he's also not playing at a midtable Championship side now. Almost like it's not some mad Everton thing where we won't give people a chance but actually just a reflection of the ability of the players.

It's a huge step up, hopefully Armstrong will make it but it's ridiculous to make out like aiming to take the place of a current Belgian international with a £40m release clause isn't a high bar to be aiming for when you're a kid fresh out of school, and it totally devalues the achievements of these lads when people suggest stuff like that. It's also worth noting that while him coming for 5 minutes doesn't necessarily have any value to you, it probably does to him which you'd have to say is maybe a bit more important all things considered.

V good post. Wish more posters had half the common sense and reasoned and reasonable critical analysis to match this.

Thought Dyche Walker said the academy was crap and full of garbage players, not so long ago…..

Dunno if this is serious or ironic, but I hate it when posters misrepresent what someone has said then use it to criticise them. It's crass idiocy at best.

 

[oglop44]

Stan Mills spotted training with the first team: https://stories.evertonfc.com/06b4e...TKc2Xoom/training-12.12.24-038-2159x1439.webp

 

[Zatara]

“ Do you see him as more a 10 or a 6 ?“ Well he’s still 17 so time to develop different roles, but he was an obviously successful 10 the other night and also played in a forward role when he came on for England. Putting aside any discussion about first team minutes , I do have a concern that as a result of his training with the first team , although making good progress and getting good experience ,he’s actually getting limited competitive game exposure to develop in different roles.

Hopefully they stick to a position and focus with that.

Maybe in the end he was limited, but Tom Davies was continuously moved around; further back, box to box and a 10, and I think this harmed his development as he looked very good at 17. A different manager every year and a lot of pressure put on him didn’t help either.

Hopefully that will all be different with the new owners and Armstrong will be coming through at a good time.

Your last sentence fits in with what the academy are calling Everton’s new “ game model” . Carl Darlington , head of academy coaching, describes a flexible playing style, in different formations ( 442, 343, 433) in which midfielders for example learn to play in a 2 , a 3 or a 4 across the middle . Strikers too are also asked to play different roles at different times. You can see examples in individuals. The other night , Morgan was quite far back , almost a 8 position, in linking up to help play in Clarke in the run up to the Catesby goal , with Armstrong up in the “ striker” position. Similarly for Armstrong’s 2ng goal Morgan was behind him and Armstrong was in the striker position, but Morgan returned there for his goal. Graham has played out wide in a 3 up front format , Louis Gardner , who I think of as a talented 6/8 , was playing in defence in one match. It’s positive stuff that we’re looking to get the youngsters to play different roles at different times. The shame as ever is that we’re limited to 2 mins of highlights for u18 league matches or we’d likely see more of what they’re trying to do.

In european football most of the players coming through are given a 'fixed' position. A good example was Onana who was set to be a midfield anchor in the clubs he played for in Europe and the national teams.

As Roy Keane said "a midfielder should be able to do a bit of everything" and thats something both Lampard and Dyche were looking for from Onana by using him in different 'roles' in midfield -- rarely that anchor position where he was so good.

The reason I asked @blueloon about whether Harrison would be more of a 6 or a 10 was because he (as you said) was 10 in the youth game but seemingly has been referenced as a 6 by Dyche (or may have been on this forum).

Interesting Thelwell is going along the all rounder development track rather than the european specialist roles.

 

[Lanolin]

In european football most of the players coming through are given a 'fixed' position. A good example was Onana who was set to be a midfield anchor in the clubs he played for in Europe and the national teams.

As Roy Keane said "a midfielder should be able to do a bit of everything" and thats something both Lampard and Dyche were looking for from Onana by using him in different 'roles' in midfield -- rarely that anchor position where he was so good.

The reason I asked @blueloon about whether Harrison would be more of a 6 or a 10 was because he (as you said) was 10 in the youth game but seemingly has been referenced as a 6 by Dyche (or may have been on this forum).

Interesting Thelwell is going along the all rounder development track rather than the european specialist roles.

I really don't think that's true at all about having a 'fixed' position. Obviously some players suit one role in particular and so are used there all the time (particularly in good teams where they may have squads with specific replacements for individual positions rather than just general squad depth like you get at clubs like us), but I don't think that's because they're seen as having an exclusive fixed position that they've been playing since they were 9, it's just because they're better there.

Similarly I think we just didn't use Onana in the role he plays for Belgium because we don't play in the same way that they do. Him coming deep and picking the ball up from the centre halves and moving it is pretty pointless if we're trying to play direct long balls, so we asked him to play in a different way. I don't really think it was something we were doing to develop his all round game as much as just trying to find a place for him in the team where he could be effective.

 

[Zatara]

I really don't think that's true at all about having a 'fixed' position. Obviously some players suit one role in particular and so are used there all the time (particularly in good teams where they may have squads with specific replacements for individual positions rather than just general squad depth like you get at clubs like us), but I don't think that's because they're seen as having an exclusive fixed position that they've been playing since they were 9, it's just because they're better there.

Similarly I think we just didn't use Onana in the role he plays for Belgium because we don't play in the same way that they do. Him coming deep and picking the ball up from the centre halves and moving it is pretty pointless if we're trying to play direct long balls, so we asked him to play in a different way. I don't really think it was something we were doing to develop his all round game as much as just trying to find a place for him in the team where he could be effective.

Cba to find it again but both Lampard & Dyche said they were moving him into different roles & positions to develop his all round game.

 

[Lanolin]

Cba to find it again but both Lampard & Dyche said they were moving him into different roles & positions to develop his all round game.

I mean that's just standard management speak though isn't it? It's just what managers say when they're asked why someone isn't playing well or why they're moving them round. It's a diplomatic way of saying you're just trying to find a way to get performances out of them. I really don't think Sean Dyche is the type of manager who concentrates on trying to develop a player's all round game for the long term in the midst of a relegation battle (and nor do you, because i've seen your other posts about him) so I would think we can probably take that with a massive pinch of salt.

 

[NathDogg]

Dunno if this is serious or ironic, but I hate it when posters misrepresent what someone has said then use it to criticise them. It's crass idiocy at best.

Alright Seany lad, go and clip a few of these no good kids round their lug holes please, that will defo make them better players.

 

[catcherintherye]

I always think people look at it the wrong way round with Davies, he got moved around because he couldn’t nail down a role not the others way round. I also think a bit too much is made of those different roles, it’s not like we were asking him to be makelele one week and maradona the next, he was effectively asked to do the same things, just sometimes further forward and sometimes further back. I think in the modern game it’s very common for players to be able and be expected to fulfil different roles at different times.

In the end Davies just wasn't good enough.

He's gone to a yo yo team and can't get in. There's an idea players always develop, but I'm not sure they do. He didn't seem to keep growing.

I think he had a couple of good, high risk/high reward moves, that worked when he first came in, but then opponents grew used to them and suddenly they became weaknesses. I.e he gave the ball away a lot. That then caused him to have an erosion of any confidence.

If I was being generous to him, I'd have said the churn of managers didn't help. But someone like say, Calvert Lewin had the same and he has kicked on from an 18 year old (before regressing a hit with injuries). I think if you're good enough, you sort of overcome those things.

Anthony Gordon for example, had lots of difficulty, but is just a better player.

 

[Slater582]

Malik Olayiwola called up to England U16 apparently

Scored against Netherlands under-16 today.

 

[blueloon]

Scored against Netherlands under-16 today.

Olayiwola was down as 4 on the team sheet, as he’s been before, I’m assuming he played his normal midfield role but I don’t know enough about England u16s to identify the CB s. Callander-Kole Cadamateri , another son of Danny was also a starter.