F1 - 2022 Season

[steven]

Personally I think he's lost a bit, and he didn't do enough to defend his position at the end. And it's not the first time, either - he's regularly been unable to defend his position as well as he should.
Made quite a few mistakes during the last stint too, which made it easier for Max to catch him. Compare this year to last year when the positions were pretty much reversed, and Max was flawless last year which earned him that important win.

Verstappen is obviously a generational talent / same as Hamilton.

Mediums were holding up so well for Red Bull, just look how easy verstappen dropped le-clerc. Hamilton on the hards coupled with the weaker car did as well as he could I think.

I’d say last year the cars were much closer in pace and performance . Interesting to see what happens next year, I still think Hamilton in the right car has enough to win a championship but do think that verstappen’s driving has matured this year and it’ll be a tough ask for anyone to beat him over a season moving forward.

 

[steven]

On another note - I wish Vettel had stuck around another season. Seems to be finding good form again.

 

[longers]

Personally I think he's lost a bit, and he didn't do enough to defend his position at the end. And it's not the first time, either - he's regularly been unable to defend his position as well as he should.
Made quite a few mistakes during the last stint too, which made it easier for Max to catch him. Compare this year to last year when the positions were pretty much reversed, and Max was flawless last year which earned him that important win.

I see races like this as evidence that he hasn't lost anything relative to last season (compare his race to Russells). He lost some of his ultimate pace probably 3 or so years ago but today was a very good drive in a clearly inferior car. The Merc with DRS enabled could barely keep up with the Red Bull in a straight line. Verstappen was gaining 3 or so tenths on the straight every lap, enabling him to cruise through sector 1 and nurse his tyres. Comparing it to last season is unfair as there was not this huge delta between them in terms of straight-line speed, getting within DRS range did not instantly mean an easy overtake. Following was a lot harder last season as well.

Ultimately though Hamilton is on a downward trajectory because of his age whilst Verstappen is probably in or approaching his prime years in terms of raw pace.

It's going to be the Merc/Hamilton era all over again only with Red Bull/Verstappen. Maybe Leclerc will be able to get a couple of titles Hakkinen style at some point but outside of him there isn't any driver massively standing out although that may be doing Norris a disservice.

 

[evilwebby]

Verstappen is obviously a generational talent / same as Hamilton.

Mediums were holding up so well for Red Bull, just look how easy verstappen dropped le-clerc. Hamilton on the hards coupled with the weaker car did as well as he could I think.

I’d say last year the cars were much closer in pace and performance . Interesting to see what happens next year, I still think Hamilton in the right car has enough to win a championship but do think that verstappen’s driving has matured this year and it’ll be a tough ask for anyone to beat him over a season moving forward.

yeah, the Red Bull had the better tyres too, and they held up better than I thought they would, so Lewis didnt have much of a chance in the end. I dont think that tyre choice would have worked as well on the Merc, as that car seems to prefer the harder tyres, so both teams made the right choices for them.

In the end Lewis only finished a couple of seconds clear of Leclerc, so it is clear the Merc was stil probably the 3rd best car out there today.

 

[evilwebby]

I see races like this as evidence that he hasn't lost anything relative to last season (compare his race to Russells). He lost some of his ultimate pace probably 3 or so years ago but today was a very good drive in a clearly inferior car. The Merc with DRS enabled could barely keep up with the Red Bull in a straight line. Verstappen was gaining 3 or so tenths on the straight every lap, enabling him to cruise through sector 1 and nurse his tyres. Comparing it to last season is unfair as there was not this huge delta between them in terms of straight-line speed, getting within DRS range did not instantly mean an easy overtake. Following was a lot harder last season as well.

Ultimately though Hamilton is on a downward trajectory because of his age whilst Verstappen is probably in or approaching his prime years in terms of raw pace.

It's going to be the Merc/Hamilton era all over again only with Red Bull/Verstappen. Maybe Leclerc will be able to get a couple of titles Hakkinen style at some point but outside of him there isn't any driver massively standing out although that may be doing Norris a disservice.

I think he woud need a clear car advantage to bag title #8. Verstappen is his equal in just about every department now imo, and Red Bull are a sharper racing team than Mercedes, which in a close season will swing a few races their way.
Mercedes could of course produce the best car next year, especially if the FIA punitively punish RBR for their 2021 overspend but it still wouldn't be easy, and he would have to beat Russell too, which is far from a given.

 

[longers]

I think he woud need a clear car advantage to bag title #8. Verstappen is his equal in just about every department now imo, and Red Bull are a sharper racing team than Mercedes, which in a close season will swing a few races their way.
Mercedes could of course produce the best car next year, especially if the FIA punitively punish RBR for their 2021 overspend but it still wouldn't be easy, and he would have to beat Russell too, which is far from a given.

Why would he need a clear car advantage ?

Less than a year ago he was 1 lap away from winning the title in a car which over the course of a season was as closely matched with the red bull as you could possibly hope for.

Red Bull are slicker in terms of strategy, pit stops etc so they have that advantage but I think Russell has a higher ceiling as a team mate than Perez and if the cars were closely matched could take more points away from Red Bull than Bottas did last season.

Anyway we will probably never find out as Red Bull will probably dominate this era of regulations.

 

[evilwebby]

Why would he need a clear car advantage ? Only a year ago he basically won the title ina car which over the course of a season did not have any kind of clear advantage. It’s only been 12 months since he had arguably his best season ever…

I don't think 2021 wasn't his best season, though he did drive well overall. I thought there were a few places he could have made a difference; first, he did poorly in all of the sprints - just not as sharp as Verstappen. A few points swung against him.
Then there were a few races which between him and the team they conspired to lose - France, USA, Azabaijan all winnable, Monaco & Turkey were very bad weekends where they should have done better. In fact in Turkey where he failed to get past Perez his race completely unravelled backwards, and then again the AB when Perez was playing spoiler and basically took a 10 second chunk out of his lead ended up keeping Max inside his pit window and he was way to cautious getting past - was a huge contributing factor to why he was left on the old tyres at the end. All this is easily lost in the sum of the season but if you follow it closely you can see sure signs that he struggled in ways he should not have done imo.

 

[longers]

I don't think 2021 wasn't his best season, though he did drive well overall. I thought there were a few places he could have made a difference; first, he did poorly in all of the sprints - just not as sharp as Verstappen. A few points swung against him.
Then there were a few races which between him and the team they conspired to lose - France, USA, Azabaijan all winnable, Monaco & Turkey were very bad weekends where they should have done better. In fact in Turkey where he failed to get past Perez his race completely unravelled backwards, and then again the AB when Perez was playing spoiler and basically took a 10 second chunk out of his lead ended up keeping Max inside his pit window and he was way to cautious getting past - was a huge contributing factor to why he was left on the old tyres at the end. All this is easily lost in the sum of the season but if you follow it closely you can see sure signs that he struggled in ways he should not have done imo.

Last season may not have been perfect but he was on a completely different planet to his team mate, more so than any other point of his career. Time and time again him and Verstappen would just completely body their team mates by unbelievable margins. It’s comfortably the highest level both of them have driven at in their careers.

Name a better season that he has had ? You won’t be able to. If he had won it and not been shafted on the last lap it would have easily gone down as his best season ever…. There would be no debate.

There is no way you can put any of his previous seasons ahead of last year. Every other title at Merc was relatively easy for him. You can’t be putting seasons where he easily beat Bottas and Rosberg ahead of last season.

Same goes for Verstappen, more wins this year but last year is still easily the better season for him because of the sustained competition.

It’s a lot easier to make no mistakes and have a perfect season when the pressure isn’t on.

 

[Wizard]

 

[tommye]

So, a slap on the wrist then

 

[Wizard]

So, a slap on the wrist then

Well the reduction on development could hit quite hard depending on what that reduction is, especially as they will already have less than everyone else due to winning the championship.

My guess would be more of a slap on the wrist though as Red Bull have agreed to it rather than appealing it. If they were really tough penalties they’d have challenged it.

 

[tommye]

Well the reduction on development could hit quite hard depending on what that reduction is, especially as they will already have less than everyone else due to winning the championship.

My guess would be more of a slap on the wrist though as Red Bull have agreed to it rather than appealing it. If they were really tough penalties they’d have challenged it.

I just wanna see Horner burn ?‍

 

[hallamblue]

They'll just do secret aero testing somewhere else

To be fair McLaren basically stole Ferrari's car and still kept the driver's championship

 

[PhilM]

So, a slap on the wrist then

10% reduction in aero budget and $7,000,000 fine. The devil will be in the detail, as the fine should come out of next year’s budget, but it won’t.

 

[PhilM]

Will the penalty have an effect?​

Red Bull already had the lowest permitted aerodynamic research time for the first half of 2023 as a result of winning this year's championship.

Last year, F1 introduced a sliding scale of aerodynamic restrictions in an attempt to close up the field, giving the lowest team in the championship the most research time and the highest the least.

Rival teams will have questions as to whether the punishment is appropriate, particularly over whether the fine will have any effect on a vastly wealthy global corporation, and also as to why the amounts published are different from those that were doing the rounds of the F1 paddock at last weekend's US Grand Prix.

They will also likely point out that the areas of the overspend are irrelevant because they, too, could have chosen to spend more in such areas, but that would have meant spending less on engineering and car design.

Red Bull receive $7m fine & 10% research reduction

Red Bull have been hit with a $7m (£6.07m) fine and a 10% reduction in permitted aerodynamic research for breaking Formula 1's budget cap.

www.bbc.co.uk