roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
In My Honest Opinion.
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In My Honest Opinion.
ham2
Player Valuation: £10m
Weirdos wearing black all the time
Mikeonlythebestwilldo
Player Valuation: £20m
Is that a dig at me is it ?
DerbyshireAndHarper
Player Valuation: £2.5m
What, as opposed to what he's done so far, clearing all our debts? The first time in about 30 years the club has not been in debt.
Source: Moshiri himself on national radio, and soon to be proved in the accounts.
And yeah, he does need to spend money on the team. Which he's said he will do. But don't act like he hasn't invested already. He's done more for the club in 9 months than Kenwright did in 17 years.
BurnhamBlue
Player Valuation: £1m
People on here won't be happy, even if he funded the signing of Messi.
No, he was referring to "Emos"
It's a play on the word Emo mate.
Apologies if you already knew that.
Dymak
Player Valuation: £40m
Debt is usually paid off in the process of a takeover, it's only because he has this strategic 49.9% shareholding that the debt had not been cleared already. If he actually invests money into developing our squad then great, but I'm far from convinced that he will. We may spend some of our increased revenue derived from the TV deals, say 30 million or so. But I'm not convinced he will invest, and if he does then I'd like to know whether it is a loan or equity.
ham2
Player Valuation: £10m
Languishing below the mighty West Bromwich Albion.
Nothing will be the same.
Nothing will be the same.
Genuine question mate, has Moshiri cleared the debts from his own pocket, or has the club cleared the debt?
Last edited:
West Brom ahead of us now confirmed.
Heads must roll for this.
Heads must roll for this.
njligernj
Player Valuation: £15m
I am not at all convinced by Moshiri. Yet.
It saddens me when I see Evertonians here saying "we all work in warehouses ... what do we know" -- given the size of Everton's fan-base it's perfectly reasonable to assume there are a decent amount of Evertonians at C-level (or "in the room") in companies about as large or larger than Everton. We don't have to just take Elstone's view as truth.
The problem isn't that we don't have experts contributing their opinions -- the problem is you don't like them as much as your funny mate who replies to every post you make by threatening to bum you. You don't believe any of it matters anyway so you won't let anyone else care either.
I hate when I see people here saying Koeman is right about Lukaku needing to leave. Moshiri's public narrative is that we are going to be a CL, title contending team. So Koeman either doesn't believe that or doesn't care because he plans to move on.
It doesn't matter if he is "right" or "wrong" about Lukaku -- that entirely misses the point.
I'm told the fact our manager and owner seem to have two different ideas is not a concern -- however it is to many of us and so that makes it a problem. That's how PR works. The fact we "shouldn't" be upset is irrelevant. This is poor PR and inconsistent branding as a best case scenario and complete organizational buy-in collapse at worst.
~~~~~~~~~
If I purchased a sports team in Japan the first thing I would do is surround myself with advisors on the culture of the sport and of our fans because I don't understand it well enough. I would be extremely careful with my public communications (have them reviewed before sending etc). You get the drift.
Moshiri evidently doesn't think this way given his mind boggling statements (about McCarthy etc).
Why not?
Arrogance that he "gets it" so completely he requires no advice?
Regardless this alone is nowhere near enough to condemn someone. Neither is a one bad transfer window.
PR and branding aren't especially important when you come from money and work in steel and energy in Russia. He's the type of person who is a billionaire from owning shares in companies nobody has ever heard of ... like Metalloinvest.
Check out their website if you're ready for some mind-blowing homepage content:
"Considering the Environment
Using the latest advances in science and modern technology in mining and processing of raw materials, together with constant internal environmental control, the Company is able to adhere to the principles of corporate social responsibility and long-term sustainable development."
- http://www.metalloinvest.com/en/ ... seems legit!
The website is atrocious -- sentences just repeat themselves, errors, generic nonsense that means nothing and tells you nothing. They are websites for companies that don't care because they don't need to care. They need a website to look real enough for investors scanning it for 15 seconds or less. That is their purpose to the point where it literally informed their design. PR and branding don't matter aside from the weakest of facades.
Fortunately for them you don't get Russian energy contracts with a convincing public facing brand identity which engages consumers across multiple platforms.
I suppose it could help a bit with another one of his companies: "The Georgian National Communications Commission (GNCC) has accused the Russian mobile telecommunications company MegaFon of illegal business operations and participation in the military and economic annexation of Georgia."
Charming. Most billionaires have this stuff though so what are you going to do?
Anyway ... PR and branding are super important when it comes to modern football (the fact you don't like this is irrelevant).
~~~~~~~~~
"Oh who cares he can hire someone to do PR and branding."
No he can't.
Well ... I don't *know* he can't.
I do know that in the grand scheme of things when you don't need to know something for your core businesses (not just that it isn't important -- but that it's essentially literally pointless) it usually doesn't turn out to be your first priority and strength in another business.
If you've never needed something how do you know how important it is in another field?
If you've never needed something how do you know what represents a good employee?
There is a certain type of person who REFUSES to believe the same arrogant boss culture they experience in their job is still present at higher levels. There is an assumption it must get better the higher you go because they're dealing with bigger numbers.
It doesn't get better.
In some ways it's even worse.
If he was going to hire someone great to do PR and branding he'd either have hired them (and they'd have said "never send anything public without going through me first") or he'd be in hibernation mode waiting for his hire and acting in the most reasonable way (which he isn't).
If he thinks branding and PR are important he has a funny way of showing that to us (aside from the Goodison touch ups which are good but also they're essentially gimmes for someone willing to pay for it ... it's not ground breaking ... get it?).
His lack of PR and lack of concern for Everton's identity isn't a deal breaker but it's one of the few things we've seen so far and it isn't encouraging.
The point isn't that this is a HUGE deal -- the point is what evidence do we have of his attitude and his process? You have to ask me to believe that almost everything we've seen from him so far is an aberration and no indication of how things will be moving forward. That's in many ways more unreasonable than "over-reacting" to what has occurred thus far.
~~~~~~~~~
So what are we to think of our new owner?
"Well frankly I don't give a toss as long as he spends the cash."
It's much easier to ignore reality and toss out generic football banter like this.
In reality if he screws up his next purchases as much as he did the first round will he *want* to spend more?
Will he want to spend more if the signings don't work and he's made more public gaffes and everyone turns on him? Build a stadium?
He doesn't love this club. How much "bad times" can this arranged marriage survive in the early years?
We need to be able to communicate with the club. Not for us. Not to make us feel better and more engaged. For the good of the club itself. If we do it right it will help the club more than it will help us.
~~~~~~~~~
He didn't fire the CEO.
He met him.
Spoke with him.
Didn't fire him.
Put him on his board.
Why did you want Moyes fired? You probably did. Was it essentially because (aside from once) he never did more than average?
Can our CEO even see average from the bottom of the hole he dug for himself?
~~~~~~~~~
"I only care about what happens on the pitch mate."
You're an idiot.
You CAN'T do that with football any longer. Pick a new hobby. It doesn't work like that anymore.
The CEO matters and the fact you're too casual and cool to bother learning about and listening to people talk about the CEO of a football club makes us weaker.
Your feelings about what football "should" be like are irrelevant.
~~~~~~~~~
He's met Bill Kenwright.
It seems he genuinely sees him as a trusted advisor.
Does he understand how many Evertonians find this truly horrifying?
Not crazy hot-headed half-wits making knee-jerk reactions but educated people who take the time to read hundreds of pages of documents to study the business of Everton.
Even if he disagrees with our assessment of BK -- does he know that's how many of us feel?
~~~~~~~~~
We don't march about our managers and our owners so our CEO is just not going to get enough hate to penetrate the bubble.
How would Moshiri know how much we think Elstone has let us down?
Would he even care if he did?
~~~~~~~~~
"How do you know it all mate?"
Well I don't do I? Fans don't know what's going on behind closed doors so we judge what we can see (the books at the end of the year, the results on the pitch, the general impression we have of the direction of the business).
Your decision to say two of those three things don't matter does not make it true and your dogged determination to hijack any serious progressive discourse when these issues arise on forums hurts the club.
It hurts the club because we have no voice.
We are drowned out by "opinions" about who to buy and who to sell ... truly pointless discussions.
~~~~~~~~~
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum is a truly powerful concept and I love that the club I gravitated to at 6 or 7 for whatever reason (chosen!) has this motto.
I wish the owner understood why it's so important to us and why the perception that he or his manager does not take it seriously is a real problem.
1878. Play the hand you were dealt.
We have an identity.
It's real.
Moshiri doesn't get it.
Yet.
Fingers crossed.
~~~~~~~~~
Message boards (also pretty much just internet) culture is disagreeable to the point of being a significant negative for all who participate.
I see people say things here which I know aren't true. I don't care one way or another about what they are saying -- I just know it isn't true. It doesn't benefit me to sway the person to believe me, I have zero agenda and actual facts on my side and despite that it's virtually impossible for me (or anyone else here) to really change anyone's mind with just words.
This is a problem and it weakens us as Evertonians (also humans).
The moderators/website owners run their websites like accountants tasked with maximizing a user-base. Assuming a user doesn't break "the rules" (language and other "basic standards of decency" which in many cases are actually neutral and irrelevant in terms of their material impact on the exchange of ideas) they can essentially gridlock a website with "their ideas."
A skilled troll (and unfortunately it's not hard to be good at something so stupid) can truly disrupt discourse to the point where it's impossible to exchange real ideas and also impossible to even tell who is a troll and who is a real user. Often the trolls don't know.
The "CNN" approach to moderation guarantees that "a certain type of voice" will always dominate the discourse.
~~~~~~~~~
"Too early for this mate ... have to wait and see."
Your rules are not my rules and your kind has been controlling how we do things for a decade or so now and our laissez-faire approach to football fandom has resulted in zero productive communication with the club.
Why should I listen to you?
BK, Elstone are proven failures and Moshiri has seemingly installed them as trusted advisors.
I don't trust that they know what they're doing and a significant portion of the fan-base agrees.
It's not solely an opinion -- if it exists as a perception to a portion of your customers that's a huge problem for Everton.
They do nothing about it and they haven't done anything about it for years (BK and Elstone have retreated from the little communication we had). Martinez forced some fan forums but otherwise it's been all backwards.
Is Moshiri -- whose only statements thus far have gotten him into if not hot at least warm water -- about to usher in a new era of open communication with BK and Elstone at his side? I mean honestly.
Reach out to us. Find a way to vet us. Filter through our emotion, frustration nonsense (which stems from passion). Then listen to us. For the club. You can't do it without us and so far you haven't shown us that you get us.
It saddens me when I see Evertonians here saying "we all work in warehouses ... what do we know" -- given the size of Everton's fan-base it's perfectly reasonable to assume there are a decent amount of Evertonians at C-level (or "in the room") in companies about as large or larger than Everton. We don't have to just take Elstone's view as truth.
The problem isn't that we don't have experts contributing their opinions -- the problem is you don't like them as much as your funny mate who replies to every post you make by threatening to bum you. You don't believe any of it matters anyway so you won't let anyone else care either.
I hate when I see people here saying Koeman is right about Lukaku needing to leave. Moshiri's public narrative is that we are going to be a CL, title contending team. So Koeman either doesn't believe that or doesn't care because he plans to move on.
It doesn't matter if he is "right" or "wrong" about Lukaku -- that entirely misses the point.
I'm told the fact our manager and owner seem to have two different ideas is not a concern -- however it is to many of us and so that makes it a problem. That's how PR works. The fact we "shouldn't" be upset is irrelevant. This is poor PR and inconsistent branding as a best case scenario and complete organizational buy-in collapse at worst.
~~~~~~~~~
If I purchased a sports team in Japan the first thing I would do is surround myself with advisors on the culture of the sport and of our fans because I don't understand it well enough. I would be extremely careful with my public communications (have them reviewed before sending etc). You get the drift.
Moshiri evidently doesn't think this way given his mind boggling statements (about McCarthy etc).
Why not?
Arrogance that he "gets it" so completely he requires no advice?
Regardless this alone is nowhere near enough to condemn someone. Neither is a one bad transfer window.
PR and branding aren't especially important when you come from money and work in steel and energy in Russia. He's the type of person who is a billionaire from owning shares in companies nobody has ever heard of ... like Metalloinvest.
Check out their website if you're ready for some mind-blowing homepage content:
"Considering the Environment
Using the latest advances in science and modern technology in mining and processing of raw materials, together with constant internal environmental control, the Company is able to adhere to the principles of corporate social responsibility and long-term sustainable development."
- http://www.metalloinvest.com/en/ ... seems legit!
The website is atrocious -- sentences just repeat themselves, errors, generic nonsense that means nothing and tells you nothing. They are websites for companies that don't care because they don't need to care. They need a website to look real enough for investors scanning it for 15 seconds or less. That is their purpose to the point where it literally informed their design. PR and branding don't matter aside from the weakest of facades.
Fortunately for them you don't get Russian energy contracts with a convincing public facing brand identity which engages consumers across multiple platforms.
I suppose it could help a bit with another one of his companies: "The Georgian National Communications Commission (GNCC) has accused the Russian mobile telecommunications company MegaFon of illegal business operations and participation in the military and economic annexation of Georgia."
Charming. Most billionaires have this stuff though so what are you going to do?
Anyway ... PR and branding are super important when it comes to modern football (the fact you don't like this is irrelevant).
~~~~~~~~~
"Oh who cares he can hire someone to do PR and branding."
No he can't.
Well ... I don't *know* he can't.
I do know that in the grand scheme of things when you don't need to know something for your core businesses (not just that it isn't important -- but that it's essentially literally pointless) it usually doesn't turn out to be your first priority and strength in another business.
If you've never needed something how do you know how important it is in another field?
If you've never needed something how do you know what represents a good employee?
There is a certain type of person who REFUSES to believe the same arrogant boss culture they experience in their job is still present at higher levels. There is an assumption it must get better the higher you go because they're dealing with bigger numbers.
It doesn't get better.
In some ways it's even worse.
If he was going to hire someone great to do PR and branding he'd either have hired them (and they'd have said "never send anything public without going through me first") or he'd be in hibernation mode waiting for his hire and acting in the most reasonable way (which he isn't).
If he thinks branding and PR are important he has a funny way of showing that to us (aside from the Goodison touch ups which are good but also they're essentially gimmes for someone willing to pay for it ... it's not ground breaking ... get it?).
His lack of PR and lack of concern for Everton's identity isn't a deal breaker but it's one of the few things we've seen so far and it isn't encouraging.
The point isn't that this is a HUGE deal -- the point is what evidence do we have of his attitude and his process? You have to ask me to believe that almost everything we've seen from him so far is an aberration and no indication of how things will be moving forward. That's in many ways more unreasonable than "over-reacting" to what has occurred thus far.
~~~~~~~~~
So what are we to think of our new owner?
"Well frankly I don't give a toss as long as he spends the cash."
It's much easier to ignore reality and toss out generic football banter like this.
In reality if he screws up his next purchases as much as he did the first round will he *want* to spend more?
Will he want to spend more if the signings don't work and he's made more public gaffes and everyone turns on him? Build a stadium?
He doesn't love this club. How much "bad times" can this arranged marriage survive in the early years?
We need to be able to communicate with the club. Not for us. Not to make us feel better and more engaged. For the good of the club itself. If we do it right it will help the club more than it will help us.
~~~~~~~~~
He didn't fire the CEO.
He met him.
Spoke with him.
Didn't fire him.
Put him on his board.
Why did you want Moyes fired? You probably did. Was it essentially because (aside from once) he never did more than average?
Can our CEO even see average from the bottom of the hole he dug for himself?
~~~~~~~~~
"I only care about what happens on the pitch mate."
You're an idiot.
You CAN'T do that with football any longer. Pick a new hobby. It doesn't work like that anymore.
The CEO matters and the fact you're too casual and cool to bother learning about and listening to people talk about the CEO of a football club makes us weaker.
Your feelings about what football "should" be like are irrelevant.
~~~~~~~~~
He's met Bill Kenwright.
It seems he genuinely sees him as a trusted advisor.
Does he understand how many Evertonians find this truly horrifying?
Not crazy hot-headed half-wits making knee-jerk reactions but educated people who take the time to read hundreds of pages of documents to study the business of Everton.
Even if he disagrees with our assessment of BK -- does he know that's how many of us feel?
~~~~~~~~~
We don't march about our managers and our owners so our CEO is just not going to get enough hate to penetrate the bubble.
How would Moshiri know how much we think Elstone has let us down?
Would he even care if he did?
~~~~~~~~~
"How do you know it all mate?"
Well I don't do I? Fans don't know what's going on behind closed doors so we judge what we can see (the books at the end of the year, the results on the pitch, the general impression we have of the direction of the business).
Your decision to say two of those three things don't matter does not make it true and your dogged determination to hijack any serious progressive discourse when these issues arise on forums hurts the club.
It hurts the club because we have no voice.
We are drowned out by "opinions" about who to buy and who to sell ... truly pointless discussions.
~~~~~~~~~
Nil Satis Nisi Optimum is a truly powerful concept and I love that the club I gravitated to at 6 or 7 for whatever reason (chosen!) has this motto.
I wish the owner understood why it's so important to us and why the perception that he or his manager does not take it seriously is a real problem.
1878. Play the hand you were dealt.
We have an identity.
It's real.
Moshiri doesn't get it.
Yet.
Fingers crossed.
~~~~~~~~~
Message boards (also pretty much just internet) culture is disagreeable to the point of being a significant negative for all who participate.
I see people say things here which I know aren't true. I don't care one way or another about what they are saying -- I just know it isn't true. It doesn't benefit me to sway the person to believe me, I have zero agenda and actual facts on my side and despite that it's virtually impossible for me (or anyone else here) to really change anyone's mind with just words.
This is a problem and it weakens us as Evertonians (also humans).
The moderators/website owners run their websites like accountants tasked with maximizing a user-base. Assuming a user doesn't break "the rules" (language and other "basic standards of decency" which in many cases are actually neutral and irrelevant in terms of their material impact on the exchange of ideas) they can essentially gridlock a website with "their ideas."
A skilled troll (and unfortunately it's not hard to be good at something so stupid) can truly disrupt discourse to the point where it's impossible to exchange real ideas and also impossible to even tell who is a troll and who is a real user. Often the trolls don't know.
The "CNN" approach to moderation guarantees that "a certain type of voice" will always dominate the discourse.
~~~~~~~~~
"Too early for this mate ... have to wait and see."
Your rules are not my rules and your kind has been controlling how we do things for a decade or so now and our laissez-faire approach to football fandom has resulted in zero productive communication with the club.
Why should I listen to you?
BK, Elstone are proven failures and Moshiri has seemingly installed them as trusted advisors.
I don't trust that they know what they're doing and a significant portion of the fan-base agrees.
It's not solely an opinion -- if it exists as a perception to a portion of your customers that's a huge problem for Everton.
They do nothing about it and they haven't done anything about it for years (BK and Elstone have retreated from the little communication we had). Martinez forced some fan forums but otherwise it's been all backwards.
Is Moshiri -- whose only statements thus far have gotten him into if not hot at least warm water -- about to usher in a new era of open communication with BK and Elstone at his side? I mean honestly.
Reach out to us. Find a way to vet us. Filter through our emotion, frustration nonsense (which stems from passion). Then listen to us. For the club. You can't do it without us and so far you haven't shown us that you get us.