Financial Fair Play investigation

[formerly manx toffee]

I know they are trying to be clever with amortisation so their spending doesn't destroy them for FFP, but I wonder if they have ever paused for a moment to wonder why the rest of football isn't doing the same. It's not something so ingenious no one else will have thought of it, there's obviously a number of reasons they don't.

It catches up with you. In seven years time they will have amortization still ringing through. It’s like buying on the never never …. Short term relief, long term pain

 

[davek]

Both the Premier League and EFL P&S rules for demoted PL clubs apply in subsequent seasons whilst 'parachute payments' apply (these apply for three years, after relegation, essentially would be the end of the PL monitoring window)

Newly promoted clubs from EFL and/or to PL also have both sets of rules applying during the relevant 'monitoring windows' for the respective leagues they were in (which was last three years)

That is my understanding from having read both sets of rules

i.e. Everton if relegated could still be penalised by the Premier League referral to independent commission, and that would be undoubtedly taken out of the 'parachute payments' etc etc

Sanctions could be passed to EFL to apply and the rules suggest PL and EFL will cooperate in that situation to apply them and they respect each other's rules and disciplinary processes.

And yet you still push for the penalties.

 

[WestStandLower]

I know they are trying to be clever with amortisation so their spending doesn't destroy them for FFP, but I wonder if they have ever paused for a moment to wonder why the rest of football isn't doing the same. It's not something so ingenious no one else will have thought of it, there's obviously a number of reasons they don't.

Not that long ago it was unusual for players to get contracts in excess of 3 years but with the advent of Bosman, FFP and the huge fees that clubs now pay the contract length it’s now common place for contracts to push past the 5 year length that many feel that was the longest in existence before Bohley shipped up at Chelse.

Newcastle have 6 players who signed contracts of 6 years or more with options to extend, City have 9, Utd 3 including Mc Guire , Liverpool 3 and yes even Everton have 3 including Pickford .

Every player signed is a gamble . Some would argue that losing valuable players who rundown their shorter contracts is more of a concern indeed a player entering the last year or two of their contracts sees their value drop like a stone shifting the negotiating power into the hands of the players.

Will every one of the Chelsea players signed on long contracts work out? Of course they won’t but that can equally be said of players given 5 year deals.

It’s worth noting that the longer contracts aren’t just offered to minimise FFP indeed several of our academy products have likewise signed long deals add that to the fact that a number were signed for under £20 million and are 22 or under meaning that the annual amortised sum is either nil or small and also 1) Signing on fees are paid over a longer period) 2) Agents fees are significantly reduced because you don’t need to engage with the players and their representatives every couple of years in renewal talks 2) You retain the value of players for longer ( even if they go out on loan )What I mean by that is in close season 22 for example we lost Rudiger and Christen for free and to replace etc cost a huge wedge.

A significant contributor to Chelsea 21/22 £121 million loss was a sum of £76m for impairment .

That sum is the highest any PL club has ever shown. What they have down is advanced losses for players who arent worth anywhere near their amortorised value players I guess like Lukaku. Add to that players sold or released in the 22/23 accounting year like Jorginho , Emerson and Rudiger who saw a charge of £40 ish million disappear off the 22/23 numbers

Of course Chelsea’s transfer spend in 22/23 has been colossal but many of the fees quoted as having been paid are vastly inflated to include potential bonuses

They maxed the contract term to 5 years from the next windows, cos of Chelsea mucking them about.

People get mixed up on this one.

It is UEFA that have ruled on the length of time that a fee can be amortised for FFP purposes They, UEFA ,don’t have any control of contract length at all that is down to FIFA meaning going forward as long as the law of the respective country where a club is registered allows contracts can still be offered for any length

 

[Damo_1878]

And yet you still push for the penalties.

Where have I pushed for penalties @davek?

Quote me the specific posts where I have pushed for penalties

I'll wait.

 

[davek]

Where have I pushed for penalties @davek?

Quote me the specific posts where I have pushed for penalties

I'll wait.

You're all but wanting punishments because you believe it'll pitchfork the board.

 

[Damo_1878]

You're all but wanting punishments because you believe it'll pitchfork the board.

I'm still waiting on you to quote my posts where I have or do 'push' for penalties

Still waiting.

The thing you can't distinguish between is 'being informed' and 'advocating' something. You're acting like Bill Kenwright. You want us all to be stupid and clap clap clap to anything the club say. Even if it is complete nonsense. Anyone criticising is accused of being 'negative' etc

Thats just not reality Dave.

I don't want penalties against the club. I want those responsible (Bill Kenwright and Denise Barrett Baxendale) to be held 'accountable'

Things like cancelling the EFC Annual General Meeting, and similar was them decimating accountability at the club. They're a disgrace and deserve everything coming to them for their behaviour and what they have done.

 

[davek]

I'm still waiting on you to quote my posts where I have or do 'push' for penalties

Still waiting.

The thing you can't distinguish between is 'being informed' and 'advocating' something. You're acting like Bill Kenwright. You want us all to be stupid and clap clap clap to anything the club say. Even if it is complete nonsense. Anyone criticising is accused of being 'negative' etc

Thats just not reality Dave.

I don't want penalties against the club. I want those responsible (Bill Kenwright and Denise Barrett Baxendale) to be held 'accountable'

Things like cancelling the EFC Annual General Meeting, and similar was them decimating accountability at the club. They're a disgrace and deserve everything coming to them for their behaviour and what they have done.

Being held 'accountable' unfortunately means being judged so by outsiders at the PL commission.

It's just a dog whistle for accepting punishment that you're pushing.

 

[Bkk Andy]

Not least the compounding effect of long amortisation - it makes this year 'cheaper' but they're loading up the costs of future years as the costs will appear for years to come.

It's like taking a loan of 200 a month to buy a new car over 10 years, when you want a new one in 5 years time you are still paying out 200 a month for your old car before you take a new loan for another 200 a month - now its costing you 400 a month. If you're budget allows for 300 a month you can't afford it so have to get a cheaper car the second time.

Chelsea will presumably want to spend and spend every year, at some point they will run out of FFP wiggle room due to earlier years ongoing amortisation costs.

I suspect they are hoping for either big sales to offset, big increase in allowable loss figure, or scrapping of financial rules altogether in the 5 year time frame.

This is true but their puppy farm allows enough kids to be sold to continue for longer than most clubs.

 

[Wizard]

I think they’re going to cut loose academy players like Gallagher and maybe Mount this Summer. That will be pure profit.

They’ve got a few other academy guys they could make good money off too. Chalobah, Colwill and Loftus Cheek would all go for decent money.

 

[Wizard]

This is true but their puppy farm allows enough kids to be sold to continue for longer than most clubs.

Just remembered they’ve got Broja as well who would likely go for quite a bit. Their academy really does churn out a lot of good players.

 

[Bkk Andy]

S

They’ve got a few other academy guys they could make good money off too. Chalobah, Colwill and Loftus Cheek would all go for decent money.

Broja and Hudson-Odoi too. The biggest clubs can always sell their youth for inflated figures. The perception is that they must be good to be at a big club. Ask Bournemouth...

On top of that they rarely have players sat on contracts milking them dry like Gomes, Gbamin, etc. Other clubs still want their cast offs and they sell them or loan them out for a profit.

 

[davek]

The Carlyle Group interested in buying United now.

That's the private equity group that had the Bin Laden family on board before and after 9/11.

They'll no doubt be getting the green light from the PL. They're ok.

Everton have been charge by the PL though over an apparent spending infraction...which obvioulsy is so morally repugnant they've sought to punish the club.

 

[Damo_1878]

Being held 'accountable' unfortunately means being judged so by outsiders at the PL commission.

It's just a dog whistle for accepting punishment that you're pushing.

Still awaiting you to quote my posts where I "push" punishment of Everton Football Club

 

[HalfTimeSayers]

We might get to a point here where if a deduction appears likely based on discussions, we beg for it this season. 20th or 18th makes no difference. I see the media vultures started circling in the last hour.

 

[efcfanwirral]

Both the Premier League and EFL P&S rules for demoted PL clubs apply in subsequent seasons whilst 'parachute payments' apply (these apply for three years, after relegation, essentially would be the end of the PL monitoring window)

Newly promoted clubs from EFL and/or to PL also have both sets of rules applying during the relevant 'monitoring windows' for the respective leagues they were in (which was last three years)

That is my understanding from having read both sets of rules

i.e. Everton if relegated could still be penalised by the Premier League referral to independent commission, and that would be undoubtedly taken out of the 'parachute payments' etc etc

Sanctions could be passed to EFL to apply and the rules suggest PL and EFL will cooperate in that situation to apply them and they respect each other's rules and disciplinary processes.

If the idea of these rules is to stop clubs going under, that would make no sense. So sounds about right...