Financial Fair Play investigation

[catcherintherye]

There's two issues here:

1/ in all honesty you have to say that Everton have overspent re FFP. If we got a massive fine running into the millions I'd accept that.

2/ the PL have been hand in glove with this with Everton and their 'guidance' has been appalling. For that reason any commission looking at this has to recognise the club were misled and therefore no draconian punishment issued. The club have co-operated and worked with the authorities. You dont hand out a points deduction and an effective relegation that flows from it to a club doing that. There's no incentive for others in future to work with the game if that happens.

I mean on each Dave.

1) I can give an opinion on it, and you are certainly entitled to yours. The fact is, as of this moment we have not breached any rules legally speaking. It may also be the case that rules may have been broken, because the PL have stopped accepting expenses 12 months after accepting them. For me that is shoddy legal practice, and if that is what has caused the club to move into failing rules, that to me would be very dubious. But until we see the accounts, I cannot comment much beyond the above.

2) There is a defence the club had followed guidance through all of the period involved. Indeed even after the period, the PL have stated Everton were not to be sanctioned and free to spend money. There is a valid question to be asked, if the lawmakers are nowsaying rules were broken, where were they presumably saying the opposite for the duration of that period. Imagine walking next to a police officer, asking him if it was legal to take a picture of Big Ben, him confirming that it was, then when you did so, he arrested you. I am not sure that would be looked upon favourably by the courts.

At best it is negligent, at worst there is a case that it is entrapment.

 

[Damo_1878]

What is it you want this commission to conclude Damo? What punishment do you want meted out?

It's about not what I want

Its about the poor judgment that Bill Kenwright and Denise Barrett Baxendale have displayed to put Everton Football Club in this position in the first place

Why people are deflecting and claiming Everton have been treated unfairly I don't know

We should have no expectations of being treated differently. Or the rules don't apply to us.

Rules Bill Kenwright has literally signed the club up to for EFC to participate in the Premier League

Some like yourself on here seem to think we do. It seems

 

[catcherintherye]

They've written down during Covid and still failed P&S

It's not going to get thrown out

The independent commission is also not subject to CAS.

Again I'm not being horrible mate, but that is factually incorrect.
They wrote down during Covid expenses caused by a global pandemic, which were formally accepted by the PL, and we did not fail P&S. If you are not comfortable with that basic fact, you are probably not going to be much value commenting, as it's a very key piece of information.
Everton passed P&S last year, and the write downs were accepted. That is just a point of order.

 

[Damo_1878]

I'm of the view we will definitely get a penalty against us.

I'm of the view it will be a significant financial penalty (fine) after much arguing against points deductions and embargoes it via lawyers

Which will come out of all our pockets and impact our ability to sign players in future

It is also a cost that is directly resulting from Bill Kenwright and Denise Barrett-Baxendale's gross incompetence. On top of the £1.2 million and £900,000 a year both of them are respectively leaching from us all.

Its outrageous we are literally paying them for this incompetence

The cancellation of the EFC AGM also, by them means holding them to account is being actively inhibited. Deliberately. By them.

This club is a disaster all due to them. Nothing else but them and their deceitfulness and incompetence

We fans & shareholders are literally paying Kenwright and Baxendale for this incompetence. Its a disgrace.

@davek that's my expectation

It's going to be another HUGELY EXPENSIVE mistake and error in judgement that Kenwright and Baxendale have cost us

Whilst paying themselves £1 million a year for it too

You couldn't make this stuff up

 

[catcherintherye]

It's about not what I want

Its about the poor judgment that Bill Kenwright and Denise Barrett Baxendale have displayed to put Everton Football Club in this position in the first place

Why people are deflecting and claiming Everton have been treated unfairly I don't know

We should have no expectations of being treated differently. Or the rules don't apply to us.

Rules Bill Kenwright has literally signed the club up to for EFC to participate in the Premier League

Some like yourself on here seem to think we do. It seems

But Manchester City, have broken the rules on over 100 more occasions than us, and recieved no punishment for over 10 years.
If we want consistency, we should get 1/100th of the penalty Manchester City get, about 10 years from now, if wrongdoing is established. That would be the rules being applied equally.
What people are suggesting, is a gross overreaction, to any sort of equivalent rules being broken be metered out. Anything more than a nominal fine, wouild be massively out of kilter with the agreed precadent.

 

[Damo_1878]

Again I'm not being horrible mate, but that is factually incorrect.
They wrote down during Covid expenses caused by a global pandemic, which were formally accepted by the PL, and we did not fail P&S. If you are not comfortable with that basic fact, you are probably not going to be much value commenting, as it's a very key piece of information.
Everton passed P&S last year, and the write downs were accepted. That is just a point of order.

The the independent commission is not subject to CAS. Go read the Premier League rulebook. It has its own appeals procedure

 

[catcherintherye]

@davek that's my expectation

It's going to be another HUGELY EXPENSIVE mistake and error in judgement that Kenwright and Baxendale have cost us

Whilst paying themselves £1 million a year for it too

You couldn't make this stuff up

Where we should all be in agreement, is the PL should hold accountable the culprits- the board. That should be the punishment, they are removed from post and barred from being involved with football moving forward.
That is the only fair and logical conclusion to this. Punish the culprits, not the supporters.

 

[arch stanton]

I mean on each Dave.

1) I can give an opinion on it, and you are certainly entitled to yours. The fact is, as of this moment we have not breached any rules legally speaking. It may also be the case that rules may have been broken, because the PL have stopped accepting expenses 12 months after accepting them. For me that is shoddy legal practice, and if that is what has caused the club to move into failing rules, that to me would be very dubious. But until we see the accounts, I cannot comment much beyond the above.

2) There is a defence the club had followed guidance through all of the period involved. Indeed even after the period, the PL have stated Everton were not to be sanctioned and free to spend money. There is a valid question to be asked, if the lawmakers are nowsaying rules were broken, where were they presumably saying the opposite for the duration of that period. Imagine walking next to a police officer, asking him if it was legal to take a picture of Big Ben, him confirming that it was, then when you did so, he arrested you. I am not sure that would be looked upon favourably by the courts.

At best it is negligent, at worst there is a case that it is entrapment.

its called an abuse of process

 

[catcherintherye]

The the independent commission is not subject to CAS. Go read the Premier League rulebook. It has its own appeals procedure

But nothing I have stated suggests it is. In fact I have written along post detailing exactly this point, and frankly what an enormous red flag it is.
To circle back though, that you thinkm we have previously failed P&S shows how little understanding you have. As a point of order, we did not.

 

[Dymak]

They KNEW what the next accounts would reveal and that the club would have to come into line for the following season to avoid further problems. That's what they did in conjunction with the PL.

I mean, it's laudable to run the rule over your own club and appeal for fairness, but youlre simply repeating an assertion about the PL's expectations that dont reflect reality.

You’re saying the PL knew the contents of the accounts that they have only recently received? The accounts that will be published publicly next week, and show just how much we have breached the rules by?

I don’t think that the case, but I'm happy to be corrected?

I think last year’s PL response applied to the state of affairs that applied this time last year only. I don't think there was any guarantee that the same stance would apply in the future.

How long did you think that last years stance was due to last for?

 

[Damo_1878]

Where we should all be in agreement, is the PL should hold accountable the culprits- the board. That should be the punishment, they are removed from post and barred from being involved with football moving forward.
That is the only fair and logical conclusion to this. Punish the culprits, not the supporters.

If Everton Football Club had a proper functioning governance structure (that hasn't been decimated by Bill Kenwright and Denise Barrett Baxendale)

The shareholders could in an AGM or EGM put a motion forward to remove them

...

But they can't because Bill Kenwright and Denise Barrett Baxendale have seen to the cancellation of AGM requirements. Plus are blocking calls for an EGM

 

[Damo_1878]

But nothing I have stated suggests it is. In fact I have written along post detailing exactly this point, and frankly what an enormous red flag it is.
To circle back though, that you thinkm we have previously failed P&S shows how little understanding you have. As a point of order, we did not.

We did. It was acknowledged we did.

 

[Damo_1878]

You’re saying the PL knew the contents of the accounts that they have only recently received? The accounts that will be published publicly next week, and show just how much we have reached the rules by?

I don’t think that the case, but I'm happy to be corrected?

I think last year’s PL response applied to the state of affairs that applied this time last year only. I don't think there was any guarantee that the same stance would apply in the future.

How long did you think that last years stance was due to last for?

100% this

 

[davek]

I mean on each Dave.

1) I can give an opinion on it, and you are certainly entitled to yours. The fact is, as of this moment we have not breached any rules legally speaking. It may also be the case that rules may have been broken, because the PL have stopped accepting expenses 12 months after accepting them. For me that is shoddy legal practice, and if that is what has caused the club to move into failing rules, that to me would be very dubious. But until we see the accounts, I cannot comment much beyond the above.

2) There is a defence the club had followed guidance through all of the period involved. Indeed even after the period, the PL have stated Everton were not to be sanctioned and free to spend money. There is a valid question to be asked, if the lawmakers are nowsaying rules were broken, where were they presumably saying the opposite for the duration of that period. Imagine walking next to a police officer, asking him if it was legal to take a picture of Big Ben, him confirming that it was, then when you did so, he arrested you. I am not sure that would be looked upon favourably by the courts.

At best it is negligent, at worst there is a case that it is entrapment.

The PL have clearly bollocksed this up. It's clear now that the club statment yesterday (interpreted as bravado by some) was exasperation at a baffling decision given what had been agreed (and passed on to other clubs it appears).

On point 1: maybe their hasn't been a transgression in the context you state that certain costs that weren't include in P&L now are included. The laywyers will sort that one out. I'm just looking at the spending EFC made in relation to other clubs and thinking that looks a lot out of line with what others spent.

 

[Damo_1878]

The PL have clearly bollocksed this up. It's clear now that the club statment yesterday (interpreted as bravado by some) was exasperation at a baffling decision given what had been agreed (and passed on to other clubs it appears).

On point 1: maybe their hasn't been a transgression in the context you state that certain costs that weren't include in P&L now are included. The laywyers will sort that one out. I'm just looking at the spending EFC made in relation to other clubs and thinking that looks a lot out of line with what others spent.

Stop deflecting Dave