Financial Fair Play investigation

[Damo_1878]

I'm afriad that is just untrue mate.

P&S could very easily fall. It looks completely illogical at present, that a club who has spent negative 30 million is being penalised for spending too much while a team that spends 650m in a single season allegedly can't compete with us. But that's a slight aside.

This decision has been referred to a commission to look more closely at this. We have no idea what they will conclude.

Likewise, unless you have seen the accounts, you can't really say if Everton do or don't have a leg to stand on. What we can say, is the club have published accounts which they believe are compliant with the regulations. They will have been signed off by legal and accounting experts, far more qualified than you or I. It doesn't mean they are correct, but it also means the club clearly have some defence.
I don't know what t+1 profits refer to, but the Gordon sale will make no difference as it's not in these accounts. Any logical organisation, would look at a first offence, for a club ravaged by the duality of a once in 100 years pandemic, and once in 80 years war, and conclude that they should be given a year or 2 to reolve the difficulties, which the club likely will have. That would be the reasomable thing to do. But the PL are fundamentally unreasonable people, upholding an unjust system.

Read @theesk article and his prior projections for the accounts

Everyone knows the scale of the issue and indeed just because Everton have been trying to delay the inevitable by delaying publication of the accounts doesn't mean people don't know what's coming

We know there's an issue as Premier League announced what they did yesterday

 

[Damo_1878]

What it means though, is the PL are partially complicit.

And no rules to date have been broken. Even the PL have stated that.

It should also be noted, if we were liaising, surely there is some onus on the PL to give appropriate advice?

They have no liability whatsoever

The liability is entirely with Everton Football Club

That point was raised by Leeds and Burnley last season. What authority does Premier League board have to bend the rules? None whatsoever

They can liase all they want.

Fact is Premier League members have forced through enforcement against Everton

Despite what the Mail article suggests.

 

[davek]

@davek and @Neiler with some ridiculous level of wishful thinking on the previous few pages

Any thought PremierLeague P&S is going to disappear is fanciful nonsense from you two

It isn't. Its going to the independent commission

Everton don't really have a leg to stand on.

The only thing they can argue is in T+1 profits are being booked from the Gordon sale

To hope that reduces the penalty coming to Everton Football Club

TBF Damo you have a clear agenda on this: you're that desperate to see DBB and Kenwright out you'd have us fined and relegated to get it.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's not though. The European courts found FFP was compliant with EU competition law when the UK was still in the EU.

You've no basis to make these statements Dave

Stop trying to deflect. This incompetent board have messed up big big time

That's where the issue lies. No where else.

CAS through out UEFA's case, so the opposite is true.
There is a reason why the PL will not allow any of these to be heard in anything other than a Kangaroo court. If they are so confident it would match the nations laws,why do they work so hard to prevent any kind of free, impartial and legal scrutiny being able to oversee these decisions? It would suggest to me the opposite is true, that they know it's not compliant with those laws, and they are trying to stitch it up by not allowing any kind of free and fair trial for the accused.

 

[Damo_1878]

TBF Damo you have a clear agenda on this: you're that desperate to see DBB and Kenwright out you'd have us fined and relegated to get it.

Kenwright and DBB messed up.

Messed up big time. They are facing the consequences of that

Just the latest illustration of poor judgement they've displayed

Whilst telling us all:

 

[Shibbywiggles]

EFC have been liaising with the PL for 12 to 18 months regarding their finances.

Yeah and during that period we felt comfortable enough to throw a loan fee and big wages at that Danjuma knob head before we sold Gordon. There’s no way our accountant owner was that far off the mark for our books that we were ready to do that.

 

[Damo_1878]

CAS through out UEFA's case, so the opposite is true.
There is a reason why the PL will not allow any of these to be heard in anything other than a Kangaroo court. If they are so confident it would match the nations laws,why do they work so hard to prevent any kind of free, impartial and legal scrutiny being able to oversee these decisions? It would suggest to me the opposite is true, that they know it's not compliant with those laws, and they are trying to stitch it up by not allowing any kind of free and fair trial for the accused.

CAS don't deal with EU competition law. The general court does.

 

[catcherintherye]

They have no liability whatsoever

The liability is entirely with Everton Football Club

That point was raised by Leeds and Burnley last season. What authority does Premier League board have to bend the rules? None whatsoever

They can liase all they want.

Fact is Premier League members have forced through enforcement against Everton

Despite what the Mail article suggests.

No they have no legal liability, which was acknowledged. The question was more around a moral responsibility. If you were giving advise to someone, in a formal manner, would you not think there is a moral responsibility to give advise to them not to break rules? It's a valid question.

Leeds and Burnley did raise it, and were told that no breaches were to have been committed, and the PL fully accepted the acounts that were submitted.
I suspect some Premier League members have forced it through. I agree with that. The question to me would be, do we think there is a conflict of interest, for up to 8 of the teams to force this through? Do we think they can be expected to act with impartiality, that ought to be expected when upholding the rules? And should we have legal processes were outcomes were partially decided where a conflict of interest existed? I.E would you allow the alleged victim of a robbery, make up members of the jury on a trial to establish the guilt of the plaintiff? Or set the sentencing rules? Forgive me, but I don't think any of these questions are unreasonable, and any journalist worth their salt ought to be asking them. I am open to see your response, and justification on the above.

 

[davek]

If they tried to pull some of the stunts they might, there really needs to be protests outside of these hearings, outside of PL HQ and at the alleged experts involved. It would be an utter scandal, and they would need to be made aware their disgraceful actions would have consequences, with people taking their right to protest them.

There's two issues here:

1/ in all honesty you have to say that Everton have overspent re FFP. If we got a massive fine running into the millions I'd accept that.

2/ the PL have been hand in glove with this with Everton and their 'guidance' has been appalling. For that reason any commission looking at this has to recognise the club were misled and therefore no draconian punishment issued. The club have co-operated and worked with the authorities. You dont hand out a points deduction and an effective relegation that flows from it to a club doing that. There's no incentive for others in future to work with the game if that happens.

 

[maccavennie]

Don't know mate. But it's fair assumption to compare us with the teams on the list then someone like Man Utd with 76.000 stadium or Arsenal with expensive ticket-prices. Both clubs make more than £100m per season on ticket sales.

You can read the whole thing here on his Everton thread:

Thanks for posting mate

 

[catcherintherye]

CAS don't deal with EU competition law. The general court does.

It didn't need to get to the general court though, as CAS through the case out, and as far as I can see, UEFA did not appeal to a higher body, so have accepted the rationale for it being thrown out.
This stuff will get thrown out, if it's ever allowed to be seen in anything other than a kangaroo court, with impartial legal expects. It's that simple.
Nothing these clubs are doing, in terms of the P&L income statements, is in any way unusual for how businesses operate, legally, within the legal frameworks of this continent. You are allowed to do write downs.

 

[Damo_1878]

It didn't need to get to the general court though, as CAS through the case out, and as far as I can see, UEFA did not appeal to a higher body, so have accepted the rationale for it being thrown out.
This stuff will get thrown out, if it's ever allowed to be seen in anything other than a kangaroo court, with impartial legal expects. It's that simple.
Nothing these clubs are doing, in terms of the P&L income statements, is in any way unusual for how businesses operate, legally, within the legal frameworks of this continent. You are allowed to do write downs.

They've written down during Covid and still failed P&S

It's not going to get thrown out

The independent commission is also not subject to CAS.

 

[davek]

Kenwright and DBB messed up.

Messed up big time. They are facing the consequences of that

Just the latest illustration of poor judgement they've displayed

Whilst telling us all:

Everyone here knows you'd prefer a scorched earth policy for the club so long as it gets shut of BK and DBB. That's your schtick, we all understand that. But thats throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[davek]

They've written down during Covid and still failed P&S

It's not going to get thrown out

The independent commission is also not subject to CAS.

What is it you want this commission to conclude Damo? What punishment do you want meted out?

 

[bluenorthwarrior]

Short of getting very lucky with recruitment and hugely inflated subsequent selling (a la Brighton at the moment) it is probably not possible to run a PL football club and stay in the division for 4+ years without incurring big losses due to constantly inflating transfer fees and wages. Every promoted club gets effectively a clean sheet so can spend big for 2 years, if you have been in the division beyond that time you will start to inevitably fall foul of the 105 limit and will be behind even the newbies in (allowed) spending power.

And that is just to stay midtable, not to compete.

The only way to do that is to generate 500m+ and there are only 3/4 clubs who can do that without channeling owner money in through outrageous sponsorship deals.

The rules are not fit for purpose, but self interest will prevent a rump of clubs combining to challenge them (so long as it is someone else in trouble that increases everyone else's survival chance for another year and that is all the matters).

This is before we get onto debt levels versus owner funding, that is a whole other debate about the ridiculousness of the rules.