Financial Fair Play investigation

[MikeH72]

I'm not generally for these rules or controls in football but it's because of people like Moshiri that they're required. He's the big time equivalent of the type of people who destroyed Bury or Peter Ridsdale at Leeds.

Football clubs are institutions and sometimes need protecting from themselves.

Absolutely.

 

[gazzaa2]

It does have a political stench to it alright with Westminster's eyes on the PL.
City are too big a Goliath to take on first, the charges too many and the money they can throw at delay tactics/appeals too available, so why not hold up a less internationally recognised club as an example. It has a ring of truth to it but I hope not, utterly depressing if so

The league probably wanted us down last year so we'd be the EFL's problem but the fans rallied and wouldn't accept relegation. Now it's become clear we'll stay up again (probably hoped we were down when Lampard was sacked) they've been backed into a corner.

 

[Saint Domingo]

It looks like we'll stay up this season and barring a big points deduction will be fine next season under Dyche.

We had our chance to break into the top 6-7 properly in the early Moshiri years, like Newcastle are now, and spaffed the money.

So each club gets one chance? If you mess it up you’re now allowed to compete again for another 3 years? And let’s be clear it’s breaking into the top 4 that’s the requirement. The revenue from europa league does not change the dial on the P&L equation.

Leicester have been in there for a few seasons yet are now facing upto having to sell Barnes Maddison and Tielemans to comply with regulations oh and by the way they’re in a relegation battle also.

Europa league won’t be enough for Newcastle. They’ve spent loads on Isaak Gordon Botman Trippier Guimaraes Pope Burn. They’ll want to spend again in the summer to make the push by their revenues in the period will just be the same as every other pl club, a bit higher because of their stadium, normal tv revenues, normal sponsorship. If they want to keep paying 50 and 60 mill for the good players they need though, and to pay them the wages they want, then an extra few mill from being in the Europa league doesn’t cut it.

They’ll have to either artificially inflate their sponsorship, or qualify for the CL and stay in there. A difficult task when you have 6 of the richest clubs in the planet hell bent on stopping you and the PL and UEFA would prefer any one of those cash cows to make it into the top 4 ahead of you.

Newcastle and Villa are facing a simple equation now. Make the top 4 this season or the next or sell all your top players to comply with regulations and get back down the table.

 

[Bedfordblue]

I'm not generally for these rules or controls in football but it's because of people like Moshiri that they're required. He's the big time equivalent of the type of people who destroyed Bury or Peter Ridsdale at Leeds.

Football clubs are institutions and sometimes need protecting from themselves.

Genuine question. What makes you think Moshiri is lining us up for a huge implosion ala Ridsdale, rather than pure benevolence ala Abromavic?
NB I have no doubt he will sell when the time is right for him, but putting aside his apparent inability to run a football club and looking purely at finances, with the stadium he’s more on the hook now than ever before.
As far as I’ve seen the vast majority of any debit is on him or underwritten by him.
If I’m wrong in that statement I’m keen to understand how he’s putting us in any sort of financial cliff edge that doesn’t finish him too.

 

[MikeH72]

Genuine question. What makes you think Moshiri is lining us up for a huge implosion ala Ridsdale, rather than pure benevolence ala Abromavic?
NB I have no doubt he will sell when the time is right for him, but putting aside his apparent inability to run a football club and looking purely at finances, with the stadium he’s more on the hook now than ever before.
As far as I’ve seen the vast majority of any debit is on him or underwritten by him.
If I’m wrong in that statement I’m keen to understand how he’s putting us in any sort of financial cliff edge that doesn’t finish him too.

Once he pulls the plug and stops writing off our losses it’s the club that is in the mud, not him. It’s almost criminal negligence that we’re in this position as a business.

 

[matty1878]

You're not crying? Progress.

indeed

 

[alwaysblue]

So each club gets one chance? If you mess it up you’re now allowed to compete again for another 3 years? And let’s be clear it’s breaking into the top 4 that’s the requirement. The revenue from europa league does not change the dial on the P&L equation.

Leicester have been in there for a few seasons yet are now facing upto having to sell Barnes Maddison and Tielemans to comply with regulations oh and by the way they’re in a relegation battle also.

Europa league won’t be enough for Newcastle. They’ve spent loads on Isaak Gordon Botman Trippier Guimaraes Pope Burn. They’ll want to spend again in the summer to make the push by their revenues in the period will just be the same as every other pl club, a bit higher because of their stadium, normal tv revenues, normal sponsorship. If they want to keep paying 50 and 60 mill for the good players they need though, and to pay them the wages they want, then an extra few mill from being in the Europa league doesn’t cut it.

They’ll have to either artificially inflate their sponsorship, or qualify for the CL and stay in there. A difficult task when you have 6 of the richest clubs in the planet hell bent on stopping you and the PL and UEFA would prefer any one of those cash cows to make it into the top 4 ahead of you.

Newcastle and Villa are facing a simple equation now. Make the top 4 this season or the next or sell all your top players to comply with regulations and get back down the table.

Spot on.

 

[gazzaa2]

Genuine question. What makes you think Moshiri is lining us up for a huge implosion ala Ridsdale, rather than pure benevolence ala Abromavic?
NB I have no doubt he will sell when the time is right for him, but putting aside his apparent inability to run a football club and looking purely at finances, with the stadium he’s more on the hook now than ever before.
As far as I’ve seen the vast majority of any debit is on him or underwritten by him.
If I’m wrong in that statement I’m keen to understand how he’s putting us in any sort of financial cliff edge that doesn’t finish him too.

He's underwrote the losses until now and also in exchange for increasing his shares to the point where he owns the vast majority. It was all okay when he was backed up by Usmanov but since the war he's now he's desperately trying to secure new investment to complete the stadium or even sell up but has not been able to find anyone credible or willing.

The point being we'd potentially be in a much worse financial position if we were still making hundreds of millions in annual losses without the spending controls as we wouldn't be able to finance the losses let alone a new stadium.

 

[Yarrgh]

Damo, watch this (starts 1.15)



That feller worked at the Financial Times btw.

That sounds like a decision to be made post season and an appeal that would push any punishment out post transfer window so Everton could sort themselves out which should be possible as they back to a 3 year period of normal wheeling and dealing with regards to transfers.

I would guess at transfer embargo for a year if any break of the rules took place. Maybe down to the winter window on appeal. If the PL chose a fine as an option, then Everton might take it on the chin.

I could also envisage a suspended points reduction if the P&S rules are broken within a certain period as this puts points reduction on the cards for City in the future.

Then again, I would not be surprised if we were only breaking the spirit of the rules and assigning things to permitted write downs. I think that would be far trickier to enforce and maybe we'd see a greater clarification on what P&S is not allowed to encompass and an increase in the amounts you can spend which would be suitable for quite a few PL teams.

There's something a foot here and I'm not sure it's all about us now. But damp straight we've got to go all out to robustly defend ourselves and make the PL's concerns look frivolous and unwarranted.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

So each club gets one chance? If you mess it up you’re now allowed to compete again for another 3 years? And let’s be clear it’s breaking into the top 4 that’s the requirement. The revenue from europa league does not change the dial on the P&L equation.

Leicester have been in there for a few seasons yet are now facing upto having to sell Barnes Maddison and Tielemans to comply with regulations oh and by the way they’re in a relegation battle also.

Europa league won’t be enough for Newcastle. They’ve spent loads on Isaak Gordon Botman Trippier Guimaraes Pope Burn. They’ll want to spend again in the summer to make the push by their revenues in the period will just be the same as every other pl club, a bit higher because of their stadium, normal tv revenues, normal sponsorship. If they want to keep paying 50 and 60 mill for the good players they need though, and to pay them the wages they want, then an extra few mill from being in the Europa league doesn’t cut it.

They’ll have to either artificially inflate their sponsorship, or qualify for the CL and stay in there. A difficult task when you have 6 of the richest clubs in the planet hell bent on stopping you and the PL and UEFA would prefer any one of those cash cows to make it into the top 4 ahead of you.

Newcastle and Villa are facing a simple equation now. Make the top 4 this season or the next or sell all your top players to comply with regulations and get back down the table.

Yeah and meanwhile Chelsea spend the same amount in 7 months than we get lambasted for spending in 7 years.

Financial Fair Play?

Don't make me laugh.

 

[mahermi1]

So each club gets one chance? If you mess it up you’re now allowed to compete again for another 3 years? And let’s be clear it’s breaking into the top 4 that’s the requirement. The revenue from europa league does not change the dial on the P&L equation.



Leicester have been in there for a few seasons yet are now facing upto having to sell Barnes Maddison and Tielemans to comply with regulations oh and by the way they’re in a relegation battle also.



Europa league won’t be enough for Newcastle. They’ve spent loads on Isaak Gordon Botman Trippier Guimaraes Pope Burn. They’ll want to spend again in the summer to make the push by their revenues in the period will just be the same as every other pl club, a bit higher because of their stadium, normal tv revenues, normal sponsorship. If they want to keep paying 50 and 60 mill for the good players they need though, and to pay them the wages they want, then an extra few mill from being in the Europa league doesn’t cut it.



They’ll have to either artificially inflate their sponsorship, or qualify for the CL and stay in there. A difficult task when you have 6 of the richest clubs in the planet hell bent on stopping you and the PL and UEFA would prefer any one of those cash cows to make it into the top 4 ahead of you.



Newcastle and Villa are facing a simple equation now. Make the top 4 this season or the next or sell all your top players to comply with regulations and get back d

Like I said it's a closed shop a super league sneaked in the back door, surely the other 14 teams can vote this out?

own the table.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Like I said it's a closed shop a super league sneaked in the back door, surely the other 14 teams can vote this out?

It’s absolutely this, but unfortunately most of the other 14 have no interest in voting it out.

Steve Parish at Palace doesn’t want to compete at the top. He doesn’t want to have to spend what Sheikh Mansour is spending. Neither does Tony Bloom, or the Brentford owners, or Bournemouths, or Southamptons, or Leeds etc. They just want to be in the prem, take the revenues that brings, and have the kudos of owning a PL football club in their portfolios, and maybe sell it for a massively inflated price later on far higher than what they paid for it.

You might have Villa, Newcastle and Everton, maybe Leicester as the only clubs who may see the regulations as blocking their aspirations, and Villa and Newcastle are only recent additions to that group. It’s a godsend from heaven for every other owner as it keeps the top 6 where it is and gives a free pass to all the other owners that they don’t even need to put their hand in their pocket.

So 14 clubs can concern themselves with just staying in the league, and the 6 at the top have a free run at all the prizes. Exactly what the PL wants.

 

[Bedfordblue]

It’s absolutely this, but unfortunately most of the other 14 have no interest in voting it out.

Steve Parish at Palace doesn’t want to compete at the top. He doesn’t want to have to spend what Sheikh Mansour is spending. Neither does Tony Bloom, or the Brentford owners, or Bournemouths, or Southamptons, or Leeds etc. They just want to be in the prem, take the revenues that brings, and have the kudos of owning a PL football club in their portfolios, and maybe sell it for a massively inflated price later on far higher than what they paid for it.

You might have Villa, Newcastle and Everton, maybe Leicester as the only clubs who may see the regulations as blocking their aspirations, and Villa and Newcastle are only recent additions to that group. It’s a godsend from heaven for every other owner as it keeps the top 6 where it is and gives a free pass to all the other owners that they don’t even need to put their hand in their pocket.

So 14 clubs can concern themselves with just staying in the league, and the 6 at the top have a free run at all the prizes. Exactly what the PL wants.

I get the principle you are making about a lot of the other 14 teams but I’d bet on them having the foresight to see they too will sooner or later fall foul of these regs or see themselves relegated.
Outwith player development and selling academy players at vast profits, none of them are going to see significant revenue increase outside of broadcast rights, meanwhile wages and transfer fees continue to increase. So they will, imo end up with a dilemma of spending beyond what the EPL deem is their limits (regardless off owners wealth) or fall by the wayside and risk relegation.

 

[Billy Dean]

It’s a coincidence that another club that deals a lot with Kia Joorabchian, Reading, is also in hot water with financial irregularities. Probably nothing in it but it is a coincidence.

 

[mccole]

My biggest concern is next season I think a points deduction will rule us out of the title race so early on