Financial Fair Play investigation

[Dymak]

Well respectfully mate, I'm not sure you have answered any of the questions.

To come back on what you have raised, why would "excuses" as you put them be valid last year, but not valid this this? What has changed in the last 12 months to prevent Covid being something that impacted a club? What legal or accounting advise have the league taken to move the goalposts (if they have done).

And yes, I await to see the accounts too.

You would accept that the Covid allowances would have to end at some point, and that they could not continue in pertuity?

I don't think this is speculation tbh mate, those Covid allowances have come to an end, and I don't think it's a secret.

The difference between this time last year and now is most probably a breach of the P&S rules.

We were technically in breach last season, by some distance, but the temporary Covid rules allowed us to get away with it more than any other club in world football.

The Covid excuse is no longer applicable (stadiums are full, business has been back to normal for some time) and we are now in breach of P&S.

 

[Tom Hughes]

My points exactly, both the owner and board as a symptom are incompetent and led to the likes of these losses - yet the owner gets pretty much a free ride because we need him. Incidentally we never posted losses of this scale under Kenwright’s ownership, that’s not a defence just a fact, the change agent in recent years is the owner, but everyone’s prepared to tolerate and collude with him and focus on the board - because we are dependent on him, despite clear incompetence. The board being used as the lightening rod like I said they are a symptom and targeting them and ignoring the owner is pulling your punches, its weeing in the wind really.

Of course we didn't post similar losses, we were run on an absolute shoestring and sold everything off until there was nothing left to sell. Make no mistake, the wolves were almost always at the door before Moshiri. Kenwright handed over a hollowed-out shell of a club, that had substantial long term debts which Moshiri cleared. So the board's ineptitude is not a symptom.... it is the fundamental and longer term cause. Moshiri's main failing has been keeping the serial failure in charge.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Up until the point the money runs out, yes. Then you're screwed. We'd be another Portsmouth.

We'd be up to our necks in debt right now if not for these rules and could probably forget the new stadium now the money has run out. Moshiri has been begging for investors for the last year. Everton are a textbook case of why the rules were brought in and why a majority of PL clubs voted for them to come in.

It'll do us a favour in the long run once we're settled on BMD and breaking even.

Relegation is now a far more likely prospect than the money running out and is far more damaging.

Moshiri is a multi billionaire in just assets alone. He admitted just the other week that even despite losing Usmanov, the increase in raw material prices, and any losses he’s suffered from covid, that he could still single-handedly fund our stadium build. Just because he’s rather not doesn’t mean he has to find extra money.

Do you think he’d be more bothered by losses and owning a club that could break into the top 4, or a club that’s in the championship, his losses will be far greater then.

A majority of PL clubs voted for them to come in because they are owned by investors not by fans. Of course the top 6 voted for them, it cements their position and ensures that no team can ever challenge them consistently. The majority of owners at the bottom of the league are not interested in competing at the top, know they can’t afford to do it, and just want the cash revenues and kudos of owning a PL club. The regulations are an absolute dream for them, force the club to only spend what it earns and they don’t have to dip in their pocket. As long as they stay away from relegation it’s all good for them. So the only clubs that wouldn’t vote for it would be ones who had rich owners that wanted to bankroll a tilt at the top but now can’t.

Some football fans, and people on this forum, like the top 6 having sole possession of the football and taking it home when they want. I’d prefer to see a competitive league where teams can push for success rather than balance their books against an equation that every single fan knows doesn’t work.

So if you don’t have a massive stadium you have no right to compete for the PL? If you can’t get yourself a massive commercial sponsor because you’re not a London club or don’t have a recognisable City in your name you don’t deserve to have a chance of success? If you receive less tv money because historically you’ve not been as a successful as other clubs or don’t have as many fans who’ll watch it then you don’t deserve to be able to buy new players who might help you improve?

It’s an absolute con and I can’t believe Everton fans are actually applauding it.

Without these regulations we’re being managed by Carlo Ancelotti have James Richarlison and probably a few other star names in our team. We’d be pushing for Europe and on the brink of moving into our new stadium and no one would even be mentioning how a few bad years on the accounts might affect our multi billionaire owner.

Instead we have fans practically giddy at the PL throwing the rule book at us to save us from ourselves as we battle relegation yet again and the club is in an absolute perilous position.

If we go down, have a fire sale, can’t attract investment, and Moshiri gets fed up, then I’d love to hear from all the fans how the regulations have saved Everton from oblivion because we’ll be in at that point.

 

[MikeH72]

MOSHIRI OUT

YOU HAVE KILLED THIS CLUB

 

[Tommy Chong]

You would accept that the Covid allowances would have to end at some point, and that they could not continue in pertuity?

I don't think this is speculation tbh mate, those Covid allowances have come to an end, and I don't think it's a secret.

The difference between this time last year and now is most probably a breach of the P&S rules.

We were technically in breach last season, by some distance, but the temporary Covid rules allowed us to get away with it more than any other club in world football.

The Covid excuse is no longer applicable (stadiums are full, business has been back to normal for some time) and we are now in breach of P&S.

It's definitely one of those 'Use it and maximize it to it's full potential while it's still applicable, or lose it' scenarios.

Either they thought they could still use and try to sneak it past the committee without them noticing, which is not only arrogant but also negligent because it's like taking a gamble;

Or

Everyone, literally everyone was asleep at the wheel;

Or

No one had a clue on how to interpret the allowable covid expenses and how to account for them.

My guess is the latter... As our board make Donald Trump and his cronies look like MENSA candidates by comparison.

 

[davek]

So you're suggesting he tries to persuade the outcome in our favour in the backrooms?

What are you thinking? He should give each committee member a free Cherrie DVD and an autographed head shot of Billy Boy himeself?

That might grease a few palms, but not in the direction that we need it to!

No. I'm making the obvious point that people who run organisations are individual people and build up relationships in the game. I mean, you dont doubt the concept of soft power, do you?

 

[davek]

It's definitely one of those 'Use it and maximize it to it's full potential while it's still applicable, or lose it' scenarios.

Either they thought they could still use and try to sneak it past the committee without them noticing, which is not only arrogant but also negligent because it's like taking a gamble;

Or

Everyone, literally everyone was asleep at the wheel;

Or

No one had a clue on how to interpret the allowable covid expenses and how to account for them.

My guess is the latter... As our board make Donald Trump and his cronies look like MENSA candidates by comparison.

They were hardly trying to do that while surrendering to the PL all their financial business were they?

 

[Toffeepot]

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. The hypocrisy of this league.

There's Everton using its own cash to spend via its owner while the likes of United are run on a mountain of debt.

It's absurd.

And when you add in the fact that the PL have been hand in glove with this club for 18 months encouraging it to think they were ok, and controlling our financial transactions with that in mind, to get referred by that body is an utter 'kin disgrace and their referral should be laughed at and dismissed immediately.

This will be a very strong defence, when it comes to independent objective judgement

 

[gazzaa2]

Relegation is now a far more likely prospect than the money running out and is far more damaging.

Moshiri is a multi billionaire in just assets alone. He admitted just the other week that even despite losing Usmanov, the increase in raw material prices, and any losses he’s suffered from covid, that he could still single-handedly fund our stadium build. Just because he’s rather not doesn’t mean he has to find extra money.

Do you think he’d be more bothered by losses and owning a club that could break into the top 4, or a club that’s in the championship, his losses will be far greater then.

A majority of PL clubs voted for them to come in because they are owned by investors not by fans. Of course the top 6 voted for them, it cements their position and ensures that no team can ever challenge them consistently. The majority of owners at the bottom of the league are not interested in competing at the top, know they can’t afford to do it, and just want the cash revenues and kudos of owning a PL club. The regulations are an absolute dream for them, force the club to only spend what it earns and they don’t have to dip in their pocket. As long as they stay away from relegation it’s all good for them. So the only clubs that wouldn’t vote for it would be ones who had rich owners that wanted to bankroll a tilt at the top but now can’t.

Some football fans, and people on this forum, like the top 6 having sole possession of the football and taking it home when they want. I’d prefer to see a competitive league where teams can push for success rather than balance their books against an equation that every single fan knows doesn’t work.

So if you don’t have a massive stadium you have no right to compete for the PL? If you can’t get yourself a massive commercial sponsor because you’re not a London club or don’t have a recognisable City in your name you don’t deserve to have a chance of success? If you receive less tv money because historically you’ve not been as a successful as other clubs or don’t have as many fans who’ll watch it then you don’t deserve to be able to buy new players who might help you improve?

It’s an absolute con and I can’t believe Everton fans are actually applauding it.

Without these regulations we’re being managed by Carlo Ancelotti have James Richarlison and probably a few other star names in our team. We’d be pushing for Europe and on the brink of moving into our new stadium and no one would even be mentioning how a few bad years on the accounts might affect our multi billionaire owner.

Instead we have fans practically giddy at the PL throwing the rule book at us to save us from ourselves as we battle relegation yet again and the club is in an absolute perilous position.

If we go down, have a fire sale, can’t attract investment, and Moshiri gets fed up, then I’d love to hear from all the fans how the regulations have saved Everton from oblivion because we’ll be in at that point.

It looks like we'll stay up this season and barring a big points deduction will be fine next season under Dyche.

We had our chance to break into the top 6-7 properly in the early Moshiri years, like Newcastle are now, and spaffed the money.

 

[Tommy Chong]

No. I'm making the obvious point that people who run organisations are individual people and build up relationships in the game. I mean, you dont doubt the concept of soft power, do you?

Ahhhh, you mean like how he basically let Levy bend him over, made him bite the pillow whilst going in dry over the whole Richarlison deal? We got Alli out of the deal I guess!

They were hardly trying to do that while surrendering to the PL all their financial business were they?

That's what I mean: Brazen (and stupid) enough just say: Leave it in and adopt a 'Whatever happens, happens...' attitude.

 

[davek]

This will be a very strong defence, when it comes to independent objective judgement

My fear is that the politics of the situation takes over. More especially national politics and the need for the game to send out a message to government that they dont require heavy regulation and that they can act decisively themselves.

 

[Hendi]

It looks like we'll stay up this season and barring a big points deduction will be fine next season under Dyche.

We had our chance to break into the top 6-7 properly in the early Moshiri years, like Newcastle are now, and spaffed the money.

This is the kind of post I need to see. We will get through this.

 

[PhilRegan]

Relegation is now a far more likely prospect than the money running out and is far more damaging.

Moshiri is a multi billionaire in just assets alone. He admitted just the other week that even despite losing Usmanov, the increase in raw material prices, and any losses he’s suffered from covid, that he could still single-handedly fund our stadium build. Just because he’s rather not doesn’t mean he has to find extra money.

Do you think he’d be more bothered by losses and owning a club that could break into the top 4, or a club that’s in the championship, his losses will be far greater then.

A majority of PL clubs voted for them to come in because they are owned by investors not by fans. Of course the top 6 voted for them, it cements their position and ensures that no team can ever challenge them consistently. The majority of owners at the bottom of the league are not interested in competing at the top, know they can’t afford to do it, and just want the cash revenues and kudos of owning a PL club. The regulations are an absolute dream for them, force the club to only spend what it earns and they don’t have to dip in their pocket. As long as they stay away from relegation it’s all good for them. So the only clubs that wouldn’t vote for it would be ones who had rich owners that wanted to bankroll a tilt at the top but now can’t.

Some football fans, and people on this forum, like the top 6 having sole possession of the football and taking it home when they want. I’d prefer to see a competitive league where teams can push for success rather than balance their books against an equation that every single fan knows doesn’t work.

So if you don’t have a massive stadium you have no right to compete for the PL? If you can’t get yourself a massive commercial sponsor because you’re not a London club or don’t have a recognisable City in your name you don’t deserve to have a chance of success? If you receive less tv money because historically you’ve not been as a successful as other clubs or don’t have as many fans who’ll watch it then you don’t deserve to be able to buy new players who might help you improve?

It’s an absolute con and I can’t believe Everton fans are actually applauding it.

Without these regulations we’re being managed by Carlo Ancelotti have James Richarlison and probably a few other star names in our team. We’d be pushing for Europe and on the brink of moving into our new stadium and no one would even be mentioning how a few bad years on the accounts might affect our multi billionaire owner.

Instead we have fans practically giddy at the PL throwing the rule book at us to save us from ourselves as we battle relegation yet again and the club is in an absolute perilous position.

If we go down, have a fire sale, can’t attract investment, and Moshiri gets fed up, then I’d love to hear from all the fans how the regulations have saved Everton from oblivion because we’ll be in at that point.

I agree with most of this except no matter the circumstances I genuinely think Moshiri would fold this club in the end with his crazy but still casual approach.

 

[gazzaa2]

I agree with most of this except no matter the circumstances I genuinely think Moshiri would fold this club in the end with his crazy but still casual approach.

I'm not generally for these rules or controls in football but it's because of people like Moshiri that they're required. He's the big time equivalent of the type of people who destroyed Bury or Peter Ridsdale at Leeds.

Football clubs are institutions and sometimes need protecting from themselves.

 

[Toffeepot]

My fear is that the politics of the situation takes over. More especially national politics and the need for the game to send out a message to government that they dont require heavy regulation and that they can act decisively themselves.

It does have a political stench to it alright with Westminster's eyes on the PL.
City are too big a Goliath to take on first, the charges too many and the money they can throw at delay tactics/appeals too available, so why not hold up a less internationally recognised club as an example. It has a ring of truth to it but I hope not, utterly depressing if so