2021/22 Frank Lampard

[Neiler]

I've said it a number of times recently but 'this group of players' have absolutely not been through 5 or 6 managers. 11 of last night's squad have only really been in the first team picture since the start of last season. Yes there are one or two who've been here a while now but in the main the squad has been refreshed, just not very well.

What you're saying here is also a slightly different thing to what you said in your first post.

Personally (and i'm not saying they're all model pros who work their socks off here) I think the main issues are that we are very very low on quality, and that we have a squad put together by different people who wanted different things, and so even some of our better players don't look that good because they don't suit the role they have. That in turn leads to a lack of belief and confidence, because deep down many of them know they aren't good enough and so when they're 2-0 down away from home they lose all hope of getting back into the game. Make no mistake, nobody would surprised to see any of last night's defenders playing Championship football for the rest of their careers, it's really not surprising that they look like that's where they might be heading.

Would disagree with all of that to be honest, there are a number of players and the majority last night who have been here and gone through significant volume of managers, we all know when players arrived. Time an time and time again, they have failed in big games, clutch games and games when they needed to stand up and confront adversity - lads on here are well able to go through the team and they know when lads arrived. In any work place there is a culture and standard, very often you can have stellar management, but it can take years to change a maladaptive culture. Thats what we have here.

Personally i also disagree, i think we definitely have the quality not to be in the position we are in, im not saying we should be pushing for CL places but we have a team full of internationals, many with European and international competition experience an outlier in the teams we are grouped with in the table and also if you compare to say the Palaces and Brighton in loftier positions then us - who can actually pick up points. You can minimise or micro it the present and that is fine but the over arching trend is there season in, season out and when a game needs to be stood up to - its mentality and culture that are depleting and prevailing factors in my personal opinion and i think last night Frankly saw it and was with in a hair of naming it, only he knows he some how has to build up to go again.

 

[Lanolin]

Would disagree with all of that to be honest, there are a number of players and the majority last night who have been here and gone through significant volume of managers, we all know when players arrived. Time an time and time again, they have failed in big games, clutch games and games when they needed to stand up and confront adversity - lads on here are well able to go through the team and they know when lads arrived. In any work place there is a culture and standard, very often you can stellar management, but it can take years to change a maladaptive culture. Thats what we have here.

Personally i also disagree, i think we definitely have the quality not to be in the position we are in, im not saying we should be pushing for CL places but we have a team full of internationals, many with European and interaction competition experience an outlier in the teams we are grouped with in the table and also if you compare to say the Palaces and Brighton in loftier positions then us - who can actually pick up points. You can minimise or micro it the present and that is find but the over arching trend is there season in, season out and when a game needs to be stood up to - its mentality and culture, in my personal opinion and i think last night Franklyn saw it and was with in a hair of naming it only he knows he some how has to build up to go again.

You can't disagree with the 11 players thing mate, it's a fact not an opinion.

We signed 5 players in January, if they're not good enough to play then we made a big big mistake, but we need to stop hiding behind the idea that there are some bogeymen in the squad who just turn everyone else rubbish, because we have signed enough new players to be able to replace them all now.

 

[Neiler]

You can't disagree with the 11 players thing mate, it's a fact not an opinion.

We signed 5 players in January, if they're not good enough to play then we made a big big mistake, but we need to stop hiding behind the idea that there are some bogeymen in the squad who just turn everyone else rubbish, because we have signed enough new players to be able to replace them all now.

Well i can, if you list the players who were on the pitch last night and count the amount of Everton managers they played under you will get an above average high mean - even this season - i mean its three in a year, 2 fulltime, in 8 weeks. Mykolenko and Patterson have had three in that time also fact, its how you want to perceive really.

Fair point on recruitment - id also highlight the outs as well - Digne was ridiculous - but recruitment at the club is basket case, that leads in to lack of stability and i wouldn't minimise the lack of stability of the club, nor the impact of it on the prevailing culture and character amongst the group being maladaptive. Worse teams then us will be safe this season based on application and desire. There are definitely wrong ones in the squad and they aren't showing basics and haven't for much of the careers here. There is a trend here in terms of culture season in and season out and rest with to many of our players.

 

[johnjoeefc]

We have hired a manager who is learning on the job and we don't have time for that. It's not to say he's a bad manager but he is relatively inexperienced for the position we are in.

David Moyes early in his career with us took us to Spurs and got walloped 5-2 when they were not a particularly good team I remember a player called Dean Marney scored a few goals and noone ever heard of him again. Then the next few seasons we went there and won. This was that 5-2 game for Lampard where he thought we could just go there and play on the front foot.

Problem is, its another wasted game and we are quickly running out of games.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Get him gone lads yeah? Get the next one in!

 

[Egil Olsen]

You can't disagree with the 11 players thing mate, it's a fact not an opinion.

We signed 5 players in January, if they're not good enough to play then we made a big big mistake, but we need to stop hiding behind the idea that there are some bogeymen in the squad who just turn everyone else rubbish, because we have signed enough new players to be able to replace them all now.

This is just speculation, but we are a club that lacks stability. I think when players are constantly presented with new projects, they give up a bit eventually. I also think the standards are too low. It seems that the players have unlimited confidence regardless of performance.

A manager necessarily needs time to turn this around, and this job gets worse the more indifference spreads, and where players are either happy with the status quo or look around for a way out.

We are also a club that systematically makes strange and wrong decisions all the time. The recent purchases illustrate this quite well. I also wonder if the club had thought of Jesse Marsch in the hiring process. No criticism of Lampard, but it just illustrates how uncreative Everton are.

 

[Lanolin]

Well i can if you list the players who were on the pitch last night and count the amount of Everton managers they played under you will et an above average high mean - even this season - i mean its three in a year, 2 in 8 weeks. Mykolenko and Patterson have had three in that time also fact, its how you want to perceive really.

Fair point on recruitment - id also highlight the outs as well - Digne was ridiculous - but recruitment at the club is basket case, that leads in to lack of stability and but i wouldn't minimise the lack of stability of the club, nor the prevailing culture and character amongst the group its maladaptive. Worse teams then us will be safe this season based on application and desire. There are definitely wrong ones in the squad and they aren't showing basics and haven't for much of the careers here. There is a trend here in terms of culture season in and season out and rest with to many of our players.

You could do tat, but it would just mean you were desperately trying not to be wrong and so ignoring what was actually said to make up your own criteria which was completely different to what I said. It would be very weird to do that rather than just accept a fact as a fact but you're right, you can.

My point is that if there are people with bad attitudes then there's no reason for them to still be in the team because we have signed about 15 new first team players since the beginning of last season. If they're still in the team then either we have to assume they don't have the toxic attitude you think they do, or we have (another) idiot in charge who isn't capable of knowing what type of character he's working with.

 

[Lanolin]

This is just speculation, but we are a club that lacks stability. I think when players are constantly presented with new projects, they give up a bit eventually. I also think the standards are too low. It seems that the players have unlimited confidence regardless of performance.

A manager necessarily needs time to turn this around, and this job gets worse the more indifference spreads, and where players are either happy with the status quo or look around for a way out.

We are also a club that systematically makes strange and wrong decisions all the time. The recent purchases illustrate this quite well. I also wonder if the club had thought of Jesse Marsch in the hiring process. No criticism of Lampard, but it just illustrates how uncreative Everton are.

Yep, I agree with this. It's easy to put it down to bad attitudes etc but I think lack of confidence and constant chopping and changing is much more of an issue personally. I think it's very lazy to put inconsistent performances down to effort but that seems to be what we do all the time, every time we have a bad result people say the players didn't try. If they were as good as that they could be top of the league if they could only be bothered. Somehow I don't think it's just their attitudes that are preventing that from happening.

 

[JLW]

5 defenders on 2 attackers and they still scored, it’s absolutely pathetic by seasoned professionals. If I was Lampard I’d drop them and start the likes of Braithwaite and Patterson, they surely can’t do any worse.

You dont need a manager to tell you where the danger is in that scenario.

 

[Toff33Blues99]

I think he’s the right man. Unfortunately he’s inherited a shambles of a team that has seen off countless more experienced managers than him.

Just somehow needs 4 wins and a couple of draws. Then a massive overhaul in the summer.

He is only the right man if he gets results, so far he not doing much better than then last guy

 

[MisterJ]

Pray we finish 17th and go again next season with as big a reset as we can

 

[Bebeto]

Should we stick with him if we don't get anything from the next 2 home games or look elsewhere? I am wondering really whats the best call...

 

[BluePaul86]

Should we stick with him if we don't get anything from the next 2 home games or look elsewhere? I am wondering really whats the best call...

I think we should bring back Rafael personally

 

[Neiler]

You could do tat, but it would just mean you were desperately trying not to be wrong and so ignoring what was actually said to make up your own criteria which was completely different to what I said. It would be very weird to do that rather than just accept a fact as a fact but you're right, you can.

My point is that if there are people with bad attitudes then there's no reason for them to still be in the team because we have signed about 15 new first team players since the beginning of last season. If they're still in the team then either we have to assume they don't have the toxic attitude you think they do, or we have (another) idiot in charge who isn't capable of knowing what type of character he's working with.

On the contrary id be disappointed to be always right. Its a rebuttal, you presented a premise i presented a contrary one we are disagreeing on a point, that's how it works mate, im not going to accept something because you think it, when i presented the alternate in regard to logic of my initial response. The point prevails really comparatively, i think the dogs in the street know our players have had a high volume of managers, i mean its silly suggest other wise. We all follow Everton week in week out, we know the players, we know when they arrived, we know how many mangers they have been through the door, we can see a maladaptive culture and a trend exists - well to my mind anyway, clearly though its a point we wont find agreement on.

I tihk your second point cant be looked at in isolation, toxic attitude is you word, i would suggest, the lack character, leadership and resilience to adversity and thats become a prevailing culture - everyone looks about and thinks it always someone's else fault or there are other reasons. Its a trend and its indicative season in season out, clutch games, games of adversity or when leadership and resilience required. The difficulty is their our obviously constraints on out ability to sign players - if that led to getting what we could - rather then ideal - then id accept that - i also think weve had por DOF and corporate governance in terms of recruitment -0 have we signed good characters - in the main probably not - accepted - i still think we have enough quality not to be in the position we are though and partly that is down to a maladaptive prevailing culture.

 

[Saint Domingo]

It’s the same core.

Coleman Kenny Keane Holgate Siggurdson Davies Tosun: have all been here since Koeman years.

We compounded that by buying Gbamin Gomes Iwobi Delph under Silva

That’s a core of largely useless players that have been underpinning this squad for years.


We’re basically reliant on Mina Godfrey Allan Doucoure Richalrison DCL Gray always being fit and in top form because as soon as they’re not we’re right back into that’s and group of failures. There’s not even enough for an 11 out of that lot. Some of them when they dip below their top form aren’t great either.

So people are correct to say it’s not exactly the same players but it’s certainly a very large core who have been here a while and keep getting selected in squads and 11s.