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2022/23 Frank Lampard

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Drico said:
We already have people saying 15th will be a "success", that "one position higher than last season" would be a success. It's nothing of the sort. It's bare survival. It's pandering to the low standards set by the board. The sooner people start moving beyond their need to protect the manager and put proper pressure on the board the better. Instead, they were bought off by the board's "face" appointment last season. Just as Moyes was a tool of Kenwright, Lampard is a tool of Moshiri. Managers at Everton are largely superfluous and are used as human shields for the chancers above. The big "debate" on here is about Lampard - but he's really beyond the point. It's Moshiri and Kenwright who dictate our performance on the pitch. People going on about "accepting mediocrity" - whether that is a "mid-table" position or lower - are playing along with the incompetents above. It lets them off the hook and condemns us to ever-increasing irrelevance.
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The board are the reason expectations need to be low. So people need to turn their frustration on them and not the board.

We can have high expectations until they go and they need to go now, as does Moshiri

We have forward options that are so poor we cannot reasonably expect higher than avoiding a relegation fight. That is on the board.
 
Dymak said:
Mid-table is a very ambiguous target that could conceivably entail anything between 6th and 16th.

I can’t agree that finishing one or two places above last season’s 16th place in 15th or 14th, and replicating the crap performance of Villa and Brentford last season, would represent any great deal of improvement. It would mean that we are getting had off by the opposition more often than not.

Let’s face it, it would actually be quite hard to be as monumentally crap as we were last year. We really should be looking at achieving more than slightly less crap than last year’s disaster. That’s not real progress, it’s a continuation of being badly crap.
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Here in the real world, we are playing football matches with Demarai Gray, Dwight McNeil and Neal Maupay as a front 3. So rather than dream of where we want to be, we should really accept the reality of our situation and adjust our expectations accordingly.
 
MikeH72 said:
Here in the real world, we are playing football matches with Demarai Gray, Dwight McNeil and Neal Maupay as a front 3. So rather than dream of where we want to be, we should really accept the reality of our situation and adjust our expectations accordingly.
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If you’re looking to predict our league position, perhaps, but not if you’re wanting to define or assess progress.

IMO, 75% of the league is crap and we don’t have to attain a really quite crap 15th place before we can start thinking about finishing in the top half. Newcastle aren’t thinking this way, and they looked like a championship side this time last year.

We shouldn’t be looking at Newcastle away as an ‘expected loss’. I don’t even think we had that attitude ahead of playing them away last season. We can’t be having 14th or 15th place as a yardstick for progress imo.
 

Dymak said:
If you’re looking to predict our league position, perhaps, but not if you’re wanting to define or assess progress.

IMO, 75% of the league is crap and we don’t have to attain a really quite crap 15th place before we can start thinking about finishing in the top half. Newcastle aren’t thinking this way, and they looked like a championship side this time last year.

We shouldn’t be looking at Newcastle away as an ‘expected loss’. I don’t even think we had that attitude ahead of playing them away last season. We can’t be having 14th or 15th place as a yardstick for progress imo.
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lol they’ve spent tons

frank and our situation is different

so slow build
 
ToffeeTim said:
The board are the reason expectations need to be low. So people need to turn their frustration on them and not the board.

We can have high expectations until they go and they need to go now, as does Moshiri

We have forward options that are so poor we cannot reasonably expect higher than avoiding a relegation fight. That is on the board.
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Is it?

Did the board sign Dwight McNeil instead of an effective striker?

Or refuse a massively overinflated bid for one of our bang average current attackers? Money would could have been spent on completely reshaping the forward line

Did the board send out all of our attacking youngsters on loan in favour of keeping Salomon Rondon on the bench?
 
matty1878 said:
lol they’ve spent tons

frank and our situation is different

so slow build
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This ‘slow build’ attitude is pure BS, and it won’t get us anywhere. Football really doesn’t work like that. Our brand new improved defence will all need replacing by the time we sort the attack out if we undertake that complete and utter loser attitude.

Newcastle turned their fortunes around in a matter of weeks. This isn’t something that is unheard of in football, it happens all the time, clubs going from crap to good or vice versa in the blink of an eye.

The league is full of crap! If we can only manage a 15th placed finish, then we are still well and truly in the crap bracket, I’m afraid.
 
navidson said:
Is it?

Did the board sign Dwight McNeil instead of an effective striker?

Or refuse a massively overinflated bid for one of our bang average current attackers? Money would could have been spent on completely reshaping the forward line

Did the board send out all of our attacking youngsters on loan in favour of keeping Salomon Rondon on the bench?
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I dont rate Mcneill so not arguing on that one.

As for young forwards, none of them look good enough for top flight football.

My opinion on Thelwell is he prioritised the wrong position. Goalscorer is always the priority. If you don't have one then you have no chance in this league.
 

navidson said:
Is it?

Did the board sign Dwight McNeil instead of an effective striker?

Or refuse a massively overinflated bid for one of our bang average current attackers? Money would could have been spent on completely reshaping the forward line

Did the board send out all of our attacking youngsters on loan in favour of keeping Salomon Rondon on the bench?
Click to expand...
The board did reject Chelsea's bids mate
 
navidson said:
Is it?

Did the board sign Dwight McNeil instead of an effective striker?

Or refuse a massively overinflated bid for one of our bang average current attackers? Money would could have been spent on completely reshaping the forward line

Did the board send out all of our attacking youngsters on loan in favour of keeping Salomon Rondon on the bench?
Click to expand...

Yes, a member of our board did do all of those things.
 
Drico said:
We already have people saying 15th will be a "success", that "one position higher than last season" would be a success. It's nothing of the sort. It's bare survival. It's pandering to the low standards set by the board. The sooner people start moving beyond their need to protect the manager and put proper pressure on the board the better. Instead, they were bought off by the board's "face" appointment last season. Just as Moyes was a tool of Kenwright, Lampard is a tool of Moshiri. Managers at Everton are largely superfluous and are used as human shields for the chancers above. The big "debate" on here is about Lampard - but he's really beyond the point. It's Moshiri and Kenwright who dictate our performance on the pitch. People going on about "accepting mediocrity" - whether that is a "mid-table" position or lower - are playing along with the incompetents above. It lets them off the hook and condemns us to ever-increasing irrelevance.
Click to expand...
I think this is maybe where some of the differences in opinion come in. I think finishing around 14th would be fine, but you’re right that it wouldn’t be a success, even relatively speaking. It’s the difference between acceptable and good level of performance for me; finishing 10th would suggest lampard was doing a very good job, 12th a decent job, 15th just about acceptable etc. So for me the manager shouldn’t be getting sacked for being/finishing 14th, but also shouldn’t be particularly praised for it.
 
navidson said:
Touche

TBH - When I hear about somebody criticising the board, I generally think of Kenwright and Moshiri

I guess I have to recalibrate my thinking to include Thelwell in that
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I count the director of football as board level, but I get what you’re saying, when people sing “sack the board” they’re generally talking about Kenwright and the CEO.
 

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