Game Of Thrones Television series *may contain spoilers*

[bizzaro]

Spoiler

The thing that the show never really covered off to explain that is Bran showing off his powers to the common folk in the hall who all accept he can see the past and isn't chatting wham.

Why should Littlefinger give a toss what he says if the only proof is Bran and Sansa's word?

Spoiler

To them he's Lord Bran of Winterfell.

I'd like to see you argue with one of your liege lords

 

[Wizard]

Spoiler

How's he going to know about the Dragons if he can't see the future and they've never been beyond the wall before? That's the plot hole. "Prepared for the possibility of dragons coming" I mean you're reaching there and that just goes to show you that they didn't offer any sort of reasonable explanation for why that would be the case in the show. How's he supposed to have "seen' that Jon and Danaerys are allied? How could he possibly know that?? There's not been much to show he has a clue who John is other than someone who is alive and not part of their army of the dead, they've not had any real sort of interaction/communication.

You don't have a problem with the show having it written that Littlefinger is the only one in the hall who seemingly was unaware of what was about to happen to him and that Arya was a fake-out? This is the fella who 5 episodes before was telling Sansa that she needs to picture and address every possibility so that she is never surprised but he couldn't possibly conceive the possibility that he'd cocked up with his scheming between the Stark sisters? I don't care why he admitted he killed Lysa, there was no solid proof that he had done it and so book Littlefinger would have actively tried to sow as much doubt as he could in the people witnessing that event to save himself rather than just admit to it. He's lost the Knights of the Vale when he admits to her death and not before it and he's smart enough to know that and that's enough motivation not to admit to her murder. Just because Bran knows the truth doesn't mean that carries any weight. Bran is just some crippled and traumatized kid who saw too much north of the wall and claims to see things as far as everyone outside of the Starks and Meera is concerned. I don't recall the show presenting us with some scene where the wider population at Winterfell accepted Bran's powers for what they are, or even acknowledged them. They know something isn't right because he isn't taking his rightful seat as Lord Stark of Winterfell, instead he's absconded in favour of Lady Sansa.

Spoiler

If the Night King has the same powers as Bran then he can see the past and the present. So he could have seen the dragons and the fact that Danaerys and Jon have allied. He doesn't need to see the future and he doesn't need to have met them or have knowledge of them. Bran has never met Rhaegar or Lyanna but still saw their wedding. Also at the end of Hardhome the Night King and Jon have a bit of a stare down at the end of the battle which shows that the Night King is aware of who he is.

Back to Winterfell, the only people that clearly knew what was to come were Sansa and Bran (and probably Arya but that is not made clear). The Knights of the Vale were there for a trial of some sort but they didn't necessarily know it was going to be for Littlefinger rather than Arya. By the time Littlefinger asks for their help he has already admitted to killing Lysa. Then it is revealed that he basically killed Jon Arryn too. As for Bran, I reiterate, Littlefinger knows Bran knows things from the past from their chat about "chaos is a ladder" which was the conversation between Littlefinger and Varys about effectively using turmoil to further your own career. He knew at that point he was toast. So the only bit in your argument that sort of stands up is the fact he could have lied about killing Lysa but Sansa saw it happen and he was still hoping to convince her at this point that he did that for her. He then gets hit with all the other stuff.

 

[Efcjake]

Spoiler

To them he's Lord Bran of Winterfell.

I'd like to see you argue with one of your liege lords

Spoiler

Except he really isn't though and the show have danced around that issue. Sansa is going around calling herself "Lady Stark" and staying in their parents' rooms. Bran flat out said he was no longer Brandon Stark and was not "Lord Stark". That whole issue is kind of unclear right now. It really should be Bran, you're right, but it seems like he's essentially absconded and they all seem to accept that.

 

[Efcjake]

Spoiler

If the Night King has the same powers as Bran then he can see the past and the present. So he could have seen the dragons and the fact that Danaerys and Jon have allied. He doesn't need to see the future and he doesn't need to have met them or have knowledge of them. Bran has never met Rhaegar or Leanna but still saw their wedding. Also at the end of Hardhome the Night King and Jon have a bit of a stare down at the end of the battle which shows that the Night King is aware of who he is.

Back to Winterfell, the only people that clearly knew what was to come was Sansa and Bran (and probably Arya but that is not made clear). The Knights of the Vale were there for a trial of some sort but they didn't necessarily know it was going to be for Littlefinger rather than Arya. By the time Littlefinger asks for their help he has already admitted to killing Lysa. Then it is revealed that he basically killed Jon Arryn too. As for Bran, I reiterate, Littlefinger knows Bran knows things from the past from their chat about "chaos is a ladder" which was the conversation between Littlefinger and Varys about effectively using turmoil to further your own career. He knew at that point he was toast. So the only bit in your argument that sort of stands up is the fact he could have lied about killing Lysa but Sansa saw it happen and he was still hoping to convince her at this point that he did that for her. He then gets hit with all the other stuff.

Spoiler

*IF*, that's the key word here. We're assuming he has Bran's abilities but we don't have canonical proof either way at this point. The Night king and John have a stare down but what does that mean? They don't exchange words or communicate in any other way, I'm pretty sure he got the stare down because Jon was the only one to kill a white walker so he's just a figure of interest. How much the NK actually knows about Jon is also a mystery. I'd say he's aware Jon as a human exists but as far as who he is I cannot see anything that shows how he could possibly know that.

I'm pretty sure all the guards immediately turned in unison towards Littlefinger when Sansa named him, it looked rehearsed. I know he's admitted to killing Lysa when he asks for the Vale knights help, but why did he feel the need to do that??? There was no proof and the Vale had already heard and accepted his explanation, yeah Sansa is Lady Stark but Petyr is Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Commander of the Eeyrie. It is still a he-said she-said. Who gives a toss what Bran has to say, the kid is practically catatonic most of the day and isn't even the Lord of Winterfell as he appears to have absconded for Lady Sansa. When did they show that all of Winterfell had accepted the truth of Bran's power to see in the past? I don't remember that happening and because of that why should anything he says matter here? It is still all hearsay accusations, including the ones about Jon Arryn.

 

[Wizard]

Spoiler

*IF*, that's the key word here. We're assuming he has Bran's abilities but we don't have canonical proof either way at this point. The Night king and John have a stare down but what does that mean? They don't exchange words or communicate in any other way, I'm pretty sure he got the stare down because Jon was the only one to kill a white walker so he's just a figure of interest. How much the NK actually knows about Jon is also a mystery. I'd say he's aware Jon as a human exists but as far as who he is I cannot see anything that shows how he could possibly know that.

I'm pretty sure all the guards immediately turned in unison towards Littlefinger when Sansa named him, it looked rehearsed. I know he's admitted to killing Lysa when he asks for the Vale knights help, but why did he feel the need to do that??? There was no proof and the Vale had already heard and accepted his explanation, yeah Sansa is Lady Stark but Petyr is Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Commander of the Eeyrie. It is still a he-said she-said. Who gives a toss what Bran has to say, the kid is practically catatonic most of the day and isn't even the Lord of Winterfell as he appears to have absconded for Lady Sansa. When did they show that all of Winterfell had accepted the truth of Bran's power to see in the past? I don't remember that happening and because of that why should anything he says matter here? It is still all hearsay accusations, including the ones about Jon Arryn.

Spoiler

Fair enough. I don't get the feeling we are going to agree on this. I agree it is a matter of if with the Night King as to his possible powers but I think that is the most likely outcome. And on Bran, I feel the important thing is that Littlefinger knows his powers and he sees he is done as obviously Sansa and Arya will back him. Sansa is acting Queen of the North so I think it is logical the Knights of the Vale would stand with her over Littlefinger.

I think we will continue to go back and forth on this so maybe best to leave it. Fun debating it though

 

[IRO1977]

Spoiler

Only watched a few episodes of season one, didn't get in to it. Some lovely breasts though.

I actually did this at first, found it very confusing who all the different characters were so gave up on it. However my girlfriend convinced me to give it another go and you really do get hooked if you stay with it a while

 

[Efcjake]

Spoiler

Fair enough. I don't get the feeling we are going to agree on this. I agree it is a matter of if with the Night King as to his possible powers but I think that is the most likely outcome. And on Bran, I feel the important thing is that Littlefinger knows his powers and he sees he is done as obviously Sansa and Arya will back him. Sansa is acting Queen of the North so I think it is logical the Knights of the Vale would stand with her over Littlefinger.

I think we will continue to go back and forth on this so maybe best to leave it. Fun debating it though

I'm a massive nerd for this series mate so it was fun having a bit of lively debate about it!

 

[Barnfred 55]

I actually did this at first, found it very confusing who all the different characters were so gave up on it. However my girlfriend convinced me to give it another go and you really do get hooked if you stay with it a while

Does your girlfriend like the lovely breast too?

 

[Donald Twain]

Just amazing!! If you didn't enjoy that then give up ! Stupendous episode it really was .

 

[flo]

Spoiler: Littlefinger & Theon

Didn't like how that played out. He was always gonna have a hard time surviving this season, but it wasn't hard to guess that Sansa would eventually turn against him and that Arya would finish him off. But the way they made him look like a complete fool, totally out of character, admitting to all his crimes without any evidence and then make him beg like a dog....nah. Another interesting, but not well-liked character gone. Also didn't like the Theon storyline, felt far to heroic and crowd-pleasing.

 

[EFCPaul]

Spoiler: Littlefinger & Theon

Didn't like how that played out. He was always gonna have a hard time surviving this season, but it wasn't hard to guess that Sansa would eventually turn against him and that Arya would finish him off. But the way they made him look like a complete fool, totally out of character, admitting to all his crimes without any evidence and then make him beg like a dog....nah. Another interesting, but not well-liked character gone. Also didn't like the Theon storyline, felt far to heroic and crowd-pleasing.

Spoiler

Theon is seriously getting on my nerves, he should have been killed off about 3 seasons ago. Since escaping from Ramsay he's been utter filler because nothing he's done has been even remotely interesting. He and his sister have never been gripping as a storyline, hope they don't devote much time to it next season especially considering everything else that's going on.

Littlefinger is someone who deserved a more dramatic ending than that I feel, he's always been the smartest character in the show and also one of the most devilish, you could never quite anticipate what his next move would be and for that reason I enjoyed watching him. To go like that felt very anti-climatic.

I am glad they didn't kill off Jaime, I thought that was going to happen for a minute or two there. Cersei looked serious, he looked over-confident. Thinking about it now though I guess it would be pointless to kill him off like that when only a few episodes before he survived a very dramatic battle and literally coming face to face with a dragon. He's always been a favourite of mine, a good guy on the side of the bad guys all the way throughout the series pretty much. Thankfully he's sticking around for next season where I imagine his loyalties will be truly tested.

As for Jon Snow, I can only foresee a bad ending for him now. To find out what it is he's going to find out after just doing what he did, no way that character will live happily ever after in the end now. No clue how he'll go but he will, will bet anything on it.

 

[Dylan]

Spoiler: Winterfell

Sansa manages to get every guard and person in the Winterfell hall to play along with her surprise trial for Littlefinger without him knowing about it. When Littlefinger gets accused he doesn't even fight the accusations.

Spoiler

I think he was in his poop his pants stage and he panicked. Thankfully, Arya didn't give him a chance to compose himself.

Say what you will for Aiden's accent, but he pulled off terrified really well. I bought it.

 

[flo]

I am glad they didn't kill off Jaime, I thought that was going to happen for a minute or two there. Cersei looked serious, he looked over-confident. Thinking about it now though I guess it would be pointless to kill him off like that when only a few episodes before he survived a very dramatic battle and literally coming face to face with a dragon. He's always been a favourite of mine, a good guy on the side of the bad guys all the way throughout the series pretty much. Thankfully he's sticking around for next season where I imagine his loyalties will be truly tested.

As for Jon Snow, I can only foresee a bad ending for him now. To find out what it is he's going to find out after just doing what he did, no way that character will live happily ever after in the end now. No clue how he'll go but he will, will bet anything on it. [/SPOILER]

Spoiler: Jaime

As much as I want to see Jaime in the North (and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is a terrific actor), I kind of hoped for a moment that Cersei would kill him off, just to bring back this surprise/WTF moment we love so mucht about this show.

 

[Dylan]

Spoiler

Quite liked that finale. The dragon bringing down the wall was quite a scene (very hollywood-ish though). Still annoyed they even have a dragon though.
The Jon Snow revelation no longer seems like something we want him to know about. Not to mention Aunt/Nephew banging is even weirder than brother/sister ffs. But that kind of weirdness is why I like GoT so its ok in my book.
The wait for season 8 is gonna be long.
edit: also, Theon Greyjoy put up a better fight than Conor McGregor.

Spoiler

How is Aunt nephew weirder than brother sister???????

You are a freak!!!

 

[Efcjake]

Spoiler

I think he was in his poop his pants stage and he panicked. Thankfully, Arya didn't give him a chance to compose himself.

Say what you will for Aiden's accent, but he pulled off terrified really well. I bought it.

Spoiler

I thought he played it well and I am a big fan of Aiden(I like his other work in The Wire and Love/Hate) but Littlefinger has been written all over the place by D+D