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Gareth Barry

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Saint Domingo said:
Maybe they just watched him last season when we came 11th in s league with 7 decent teams? He was a good player, but like Howard is now on the decline. His old form will reemerge sporadically and certain tactical situations will suit his game but we've already seen the other side to his game this season: failure to break poor sides down, giving the ball away when under pressure, needless fouling in dangerous areas resulting in suspensions, zero goal threat. As we go on only one side of his game is going to prevail. Like Howard he will only get worse.

I honestly don't mind any reasoned debate about any player, if someone can articulate why Barry is deserving of playing every game for us at his age then I am all ears. What I find infantile though is the argument 'you don't understand football' when discussing players in this Everton squad, 'you can't see his importance to how we play'. We came 11th last year playing a very boring brand of football so clearly no one is that important, no ones experience is invaluable, no one is doing an irreplaceable job that the average fan can't see, we are not playing a formation that you need a coaching degree to understand. What we served up was crushingly average football.

According to this forum though none of the players are to blame (apart from Alcaraz), nor is the manager, nor are the tactics. If you criticise any of them you don't understand the game. Our entire failure last season is simply put down to 'well we had Europe'.
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He's playing as well now as he did in 13/14 when he was arguably our Player of the Year. I highlight the bold text because if you think Barry is in the team to slide killer passes in (oh wait, he did at the weekend) and to offer a goal threat then I'm worried you're actually on the wrong teams board. He's in the team to provide a calm outlet for the defenders and midfielders, fill in defensive gaps, keep the tempo ticking & be a voice on the pitch.

Please tell me where he's failing in the above criteria of our primarily DEFENSIVE midfielder.
 
mkrudden said:
Genuine question.

If we have a blend of attacking players in front of the 2 holding players - Kone bringing the ball down and linking up, Deulofeu a more direct player putting crosses in, Lukaku holding the ball better, Barkley probing and trying to "break the lines", Coleman marauding, Baines back and advanced wide left, Stones bringing the ball out... - do you not think the onus is on those players to break teams down, rather than the man picking the ball up from the goalkeeper?

Your point seems to be akin to blaming Matic for Chelsea's current inability to score goals.
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There has to be a link from back to front though. As we have seen time and time again especially last season, you can have whatever forward players you want, if the service into them is poor then they'll have zero impact. Barry suits games where teams come onto him, he slips an easy ball around a corner to Barkley or Kone then they play the creative ball to Del or Lukaku, the one that stretches the defence and puts pace into our attacks. If the opposition sit deep though we end up in situations where our front four are stationary, marked by the opposition in s packed penalty box. It's at this time you need people from the middle to create. We don't do that, we continue to go side to side and the likes of Del or Mirallas get slow flat ball, facing away from goal, virtually useless.

So yes, i think the onus is on the midfield players. When we have players like Stones we don't need midfielders to 'collect the ball from the centrebacks' and we don't need them to cover full backs when we're playing Galloway and Browning, what we need them to do is play our magic front four into the positions where they are most dangerous. Barry and McCarthy don't do this enough in my opinion but are a good tactical option for some games just not all.
 
Saint Domingo said:
There has to be a link from back to front though. As we have seen time and time again especially last season, you can have whatever forward players you want, if the service into them is poor then they'll have zero impact. Barry suits games where teams come onto him, he slips an easy ball around a corner to Barkley or Kone then they play the creative ball to Del or Lukaku, the one that stretches the defence and puts pace into our attacks. If the opposition sit deep though we end up in situations where our front four are stationary, marked by the opposition in s packed penalty box. It's at this time you need people from the middle to create. We don't do that, we continue to go side to side and the likes of Del or Mirallas get slow flat ball, facing away from goal, virtually useless.

So yes, i think the onus is on the midfield players. When we have players like Stones we don't need midfielders to 'collect the ball from the centrebacks' and we don't need them to cover full backs when we're playing Galloway and Browning, what we need them to do is play our magic front four into the positions where they are most dangerous. Barry and McCarthy don't do this enough in my opinion but are a good tactical option for some games just not all.
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Right, so when Stones or Galloway or Browning aren't playing... what do we do? You harken back to last season all the time which is now irrelevant and has proved poor form was down to Barry playing sometimes 3 games in 7 days. Here in the present - the only thing we should be discussing - Barry is vital.
 

If Barry wasn't playing I think you would notice the difference. he is always calling for the ball and making himself available. McCarthy couldn't play this role, certainly not yet anyway. I think a lot of people will remember a bad pass or mistake over 7/8 good things he will do in a game.
 
Saint Domingo said:
There has to be a link from back to front though. As we have seen time and time again especially last season, you can have whatever forward players you want, if the service into them is poor then they'll have zero impact. Barry suits games where teams come onto him, he slips an easy ball around a corner to Barkley or Kone then they play the creative ball to Del or Lukaku, the one that stretches the defence and puts pace into our attacks. If the opposition sit deep though we end up in situations where our front four are stationary, marked by the opposition in s packed penalty box. It's at this time you need people from the middle to create. We don't do that, we continue to go side to side and the likes of Del or Mirallas get slow flat ball, facing away from goal, virtually useless.

So yes, i think the onus is on the midfield players. When we have players like Stones we don't need midfielders to 'collect the ball from the centrebacks' and we don't need them to cover full backs when we're playing Galloway and Browning, what we need them to do is play our magic front four into the positions where they are most dangerous. Barry and McCarthy don't do this enough in my opinion but are a good tactical option for some games just not all.
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Hmmm i respect your point mate but I just don't agree. I understand when Browning and Galloway play we may not need two holding midfielders, but the vast amount of games we will play Baines and Coleman. I know the first few months has been an exception to that, but last season I though we missed invention and pace in the 3/4 ahead of Barry and McCarthy. Yes Barry looked tired last year, but this year I think he's superb and I'd play him regardless of opposition.

Regarding the point about 'not needing' Barry to pick up the ball from the keeper because Stones brings it out...it's not as simple as that is it? The CBs split as you know, Barry becomes the third CB and anyone one of the three start the attacks. We can't have the two CBs constantly walking the ball out, we need that third man and Barry is the only member of the squad capable of doing it in my opinion.

I get what you're saying, definitely, but to me whoever we play in that deep lying role is there to start attacks by bringing the ball out first and foremost, not someone to play that final ball. We should have more than enough further forward to break teams down, and in comparison to last season with Kone playing the Pienaar role, Deulofeu bring pace and invention and a rejuvenated Barkley, we definitely have more options.
 
Nymzee said:
Right, so when Stones or Galloway or Browning aren't playing... what do we do? You harken back to last season all the time which is now irrelevant and has proved poor form was down to Barry playing sometimes 3 games in 7 days. Here in the present - the only thing we should be discussing - Barry is vital.
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How is he vital? We're in 8th. Hardly setting the world on fire. He's adopted the illusion of seeming vital only because Martinez plays him every game. Our league record without him is very good. When he moved to left back v Watford our play improved and we scored 2.

If last season is irrelevant then so is Barry's first season. Based on that logic this season he's had a couple of good performances some poor ones and a few neither here nor there which is one of the contributory reasons as to why we're in 8th. So he's not vital, nor is he playing brilliantly. He's doing alright. You'd think he was Scholes in his prime the way some people go on. He's a decent player who is now past his leak but can occasionally help control certain football games. Other games he's miles off the pace.

I'm sure someone will pipe up with 'he's better than McCarthy' or 'you don't understand football to see the role he does' which are both completely irrelevant in disputing my criticism that Barry is now an average player contributing to why we are an average team.
 
mkrudden said:
Hmmm i respect your point mate but I just don't agree. I understand when Browning and Galloway play we may not need two holding midfielders, but the vast amount of games we will play Baines and Coleman. I know the first few months has been an exception to that, but last season I though we missed invention and pace in the 3/4 ahead of Barry and McCarthy. Yes Barry looked tired last year, but this year I think he's superb and I'd play him regardless of opposition.

Regarding the point about 'not needing' Barry to pick up the ball from the keeper because Stones brings it out...it's not as simple as that is it? The CBs split as you know, Barry becomes the third CB and anyone one of the three start the attacks. We can't have the two CBs constantly walking the ball out, we need that third man and Barry is the only member of the squad capable of doing it in my opinion.

I get what you're saying, definitely, but to me whoever we play in that deep lying role is there to start attacks by bringing the ball out first and foremost, not someone to play that final ball. We should have more than enough further forward to break teams down, and in comparison to last season with Kone playing the Pienaar role, Deulofeu bring pace and invention and a rejuvenated Barkley, we definitely have more options.
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I could buy this point if I thought Martinez designed the system to be this way. I did first season. He had Pienaar and Osman creating from the flanks so I thought fair enough, he wants to lock down the middle and play from the flanks.

Second season though he goes out with lineups including Naismuth Barkley and Etoo on the wings. I thought he must be changing his midfield two them but no, they remained, and you had a whole midfield five without any creativity.

This season there's been a mix. Whenever Kone has played that creativity has been there. Some games though he's been dropped and Lennon and Naismith are on the flanks. No creativity in the midfield five again. Martinez is not short of options now Kone, Deulofeu, Mirallas, Osman can all play that role of creator from wide. There's no reason therefore to be putting out sides that obviously can't create anything (like the United game). That to me says that Martinez will play them regardless of the three in front which I think is a mistake. If you want to play Lennon and Naismuth on the flanks for tactical reasons then if you have any intention of winning the game you have to put creativity in the middle of the park.
 
What Barry did best at the weekend was drop back in to help out Stones and Mori. Yes, I know we conceded twice, but that was from a lack of concentration from our cb's both occasions. Also, he played some superb quick, long passes out to Del boy, and he really did dictate the play for us.
 

keverton said:
He did pal, watch the full game. Stats can be deceiving, anyone can play a 5 yard pass 10 times and have a 100% pass completion. Everton sometimes have 70% possession but look utterly clueless and a poor side.
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I don´t think the previous poster mentioned about how long or simple the passes were, he basically just advised that the stats say he completed 90% of his passes.

Which would suggest that your comment "gave the ball away countless times" is not accurate. Thats the only point he was making.
 
keverton said:
He did pal, watch the full game. Stats can be deceiving, anyone can play a 5 yard pass 10 times and have a 100% pass completion. Everton sometimes have 70% possession but look utterly clueless and a poor side.
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I watched the full game. A few times now. I had an Everton 6-2 win on record, I can assure you I've given it ample attention.
Barry gave away the ball about 10 times throughout the match – these times he was attempting a difficult forward pass, something which he isn't super strong at, but still a positive move. I'm okay with attempts at through balls not connecting - it's a difficult pass to make but I want to see players try.
This is out of a total of 100 passes.
Now I'm gonna suggest something that isn't exactly NSNO, but I can accept only 90% of passes reaching their target.
Can improvements on Barry be recruited- yes. But he's been consistently good this season. Much better than last year. Dare I say, he's been entirely good enough for us right now this year.
 

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