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Guardiola to be found out in the premier league

FCBarça said:
Players get more than agents, this is clear

UEFA gets more than clubs and both get far more than the players

Siggurson came on a transfer from Swansea - there is a fee (Amortized) and annual wages. It does not add to 75M annually, no club receives that much in CL

By comparison, in 2020 CL, for example, UEFA had revealed €2.04bn was dispensed to clubs:

Champions League prize money breakdown​

  • Base fee for group stage: €15,250,000
  • Group match victory: €2,700,000
  • Group match draw: €900,000
  • Round of 16: €9,500,000
  • Quarter-finals: €10,500,000
  • Semi-finals: €12,000,000
  • Losing finalist: €15,000,000
  • Winning the Final: €19,000,000

The TV contracts are tremendous, particularly in a pandemic and revenue sharing is absolutely not equitably distributed and this has never been a big factor in the past - now it most certainly is
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I didnt say annually. Forget about accounting, the actual cost for having Gylfi's services as an employee of Everton, is in the region of £75m. Not having a pop at the player, just an example of the madness of it.

Like, how much has Messi been paid by Barca? Ronaldo at Juve? But at least they are at the very pinnacle of the sport.
 
Pabbers said:
TBH, you do have a point. Its the same with Barca & Real Madrid.

Real far and away above and beyond Barca in history and Stature, the CL & European record will not be touched by Barca, in our lifetime. Diff level.
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Nice try

As I say, none of this is my personal metric for what pleases me in a club. Historical stature/success carries weight but to whom? Historians? Fans with a particular level of ego that needs regular massaging?

City, at least for me, has been pleasing on the eye to watch and I have enjoyed it particularly over the last 5 years under Guardiola - I have probably watched as many of their matches as I have of Barca in that time, Ajax a more distant 3rd. What I know is that Ajax is not likely to reach the stature of Barca or United either but it makes them no less of a special club - they are assured of a passionate following and a foundation based on their academy, irrespective of the peaks & valleys of their sporting success

What I have opined is that, in our lifetime, City will never reach that stature either but also far less likely to be assured of a one that exceeds Ajax much less the biggest clubs. Ajax has an undeniable history founded in football that is known the world over, City does not...I suspect will not either
 
FCBarça said:
City have been been in obscurity and were a non factor in football until oil money facilitated their relevance, coupled with adopting a Barca-lite model. Personally, I like City's football and their approach to building a club and certainly they appear more efficiently structured than United but both sets of fans are guilty of myopic outlooks - that, at least as Mancs they share this richly
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I think you are wrong - it's a Barca-max model if anything that has ambitions far in excess of Barcelona in terms of a worldwide network of clubs working in parallel to produce players in the same footballing philosophy/ style/ set up that will outstrip the origin of its creation. It's like saying the Barca model is Ajax-lite when maybe Ajax-inspired is more correct.

Again, I do not begrudge City fans getting lucky with their investors, but for a few small twists in fate, they could have been at Everton. They lucked out in terms of resources and vision and the ability to put their owner's grand scheme in place. It's no secret that they took key personnel from Barca, but they amplified what Barca was/ are doing and could do.

Whilst no one can predict the future, and everything can crumble overnight, but City right now have the potential to go out and overtake the established elite teams over the next few decades. Support outside of the country are fickle - they prefer to follow a winner. Support in a home country and city change much more slowly but generationally that can also change. It will be interesting, if they decide to go ultimately down the scab route or not, but they and PSG are the current wave of big boys and they may well knock the likes of Barca down a level who were always a nice club but not someone threatening the actual elite until Moonhead's playing days.
 
roydo said:
I didnt say annually. Forget about accounting, the actual cost for having Gylfi's services as an employee of Everton, is in the region of £75m. Not having a pop at the player, just an example of the madness of it.

Like, how much has Messi been paid by Barca? Ronaldo at Juve? But at least they are at the very pinnacle of the sport.
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I disagree, the accounting is crucial

Yes, Leo is paid an astronomical wage which should reflect the astronomical stature he continues to have in the game - meaning, he generates revenue in one form or another on annual basis that exceeds those astronomical wages. Club profits, player profits and fans profit from the product on the field

Now, UEFA's revenue sharing splits the overall pie with less than half to clubs that drives the competition to begin with - I see challenges like ESL as a way to shift that model to distribute more than that half (UEFA's new changes are even worse IMHO). Nevertheless, that is then disseminated better among clubs, players, agents etc. rather than Infantino & cronies who are doing what exactly to warrant more than those involved in playing the game?

I think more equitable revenue sharing in terms of TV money has to happen just as a salary cap but I think City might become bigger than United in stature before that happens
 

FCBarça said:
United have trophies from more than a century ago, I think that was the point - not that their Fergie years were indicative of their entire history

City doesn't have a 'history' by comparison in terms of success/trophies much less support or financial strength. I am talking also about fan support and while Liverpool's success and also gone through peaks & valleys, no one would ever compare the level of support your Merseyside rivals have or have had to that of City. I can walk out my door and run into a child wearing a United or Liverpool kit before I will a City one, for example

Buffett is a money man, aka investor - he builds nothing, he trades shares like a child does their marbles or pokemon cards. You cannot compare corporate business and M&A to football's sporting side much less it's fan support - they are not linked and he certainly is not interested in that side of 'success', only the bottom line & profit sharing. So yeah, he's a money man
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But Everton have won trophies (plural) before Manchester United were even formed. City had won trophies well before United did. It's just not true to say that United havd had this 100+ year of dominance. As I've indicated, we were dominating English football before they were even in existence. So were Preston, Aston Villa, Sunderland etc. But as I've said, these things can be changed, and often are changed.

Lots of kids wear those clubs t-shirts because they are the clubs who had had lots of success. If City out together another 10 years like before, all kids around Spain will wear City t-shirts. It's already happening too here.

As for Buffet, I'm not really sure you understand his investment philosophy, but he is completely against the idea of trading cards, marbles, gold, bitcoin etc. He makes it explictly clear he's not interested in commodities. I don't really want to get into a big discussion about Buffet, as you clearly don't really understand what he's saying, but that's incidental to the discussion. It could have been anyone saying it, but the point stands, that 30 years ago the biggest/most successful 20 companies no longer hold a place in the current top 20.

We have this view of football that everything remains the same in perpetuity. It's not how business works and it's certainly not how football works. That you think United were winning trophies 100+ years ago and have dominated for all that time kind of highlights that ignorance. Everton were winning things long before they existed, and it took until the 90's for them to overtake Everton on titles won.
 
FCBarça said:
Nice try

As I say, none of this is my personal metric for what pleases me in a club. Historical stature/success carries weight but to whom? Historians? Fans with a particular level of ego that needs regular massaging?

City, at least for me, has been pleasing on the eye to watch and I have enjoyed it particularly over the last 5 years under Guardiola - I have probably watched as many of their matches as I have of Barca in that time, Ajax a more distant 3rd. What I know is that Ajax is not likely to reach the stature of Barca or United either but it makes them no less of a special club - they are assured of a passionate following and a foundation based on their academy, irrespective of the peaks & valleys of their sporting success

What I have opined is that, in our lifetime, City will never reach that stature either but also far less likely to be assured of a one that exceeds Ajax much less the biggest clubs. Ajax has an undeniable history founded in football that is known the world over, City does not...I suspect will not either
Click to expand...

But Ajax kind of disproves your point. They were a team the best in Europe for periods of the 70's and even the 90's but again changes have led to them now being very much a second tier team.
 

FCBarça said:
I disagree, the accounting is crucial

Yes, Leo is paid an astronomical wage which should reflect the astronomical stature he continues to have in the game - meaning, he generates revenue in one form or another on annual basis that exceeds those astronomical wages. Club profits, player profits and fans profit from the product on the field

Now, UEFA's revenue sharing splits the overall pie with less than half to clubs that drives the competition to begin with - I see challenges like ESL as a way to shift that model to distribute more than that half (UEFA's new changes are even worse IMHO). Nevertheless, that is then disseminated better among clubs, players, agents etc. rather than Infantino & cronies who are doing what exactly to warrant more than those involved in playing the game?

I think more equitable revenue sharing in terms of TV money has to happen just as a salary cap but I think City might become bigger than United in stature before that happens
Click to expand...

I have never really understood this criticism. UEFA gives clubs around 85% of the monies made, and their is shared on an unequal basis which is slanted favourably towards the biggest teams.

15% is really not a particularly big chunk to have to give to a body to help organise, police, govern etc the competition. They deal with all of the advertising, promotion, marketing, onward sustainability etc. They can also use that 15% to help make football sustainable in the long run by re-investing that money into poorer areas.

Without UEFA doing what they do, there is no competitionand they take a relatively small slice for doing this.
 
FCBarça said:
City have been been in obscurity and were a non factor in football until oil money facilitated their relevance, coupled with adopting a Barca-lite model. Personally, I like City's football and their approach to building a club and certainly they appear more efficiently structured than United but both sets of fans are guilty of myopic outlooks - that, at least as Mancs they share this richly
Click to expand...
messi.jpg


High horse Barcelona fans are the absolute worst.
 
FCBarça said:
City have been been in obscurity and were a non factor in football until oil money facilitated their relevance, coupled with adopting a Barca-lite model. Personally, I like City's football and their approach to building a club and certainly they appear more efficiently structured than United but both sets of fans are guilty of myopic outlooks - that, at least as Mancs they share this richly
Click to expand...
You really do come across as a self entitled kopite.
 

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