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Guardiola to be found out in the premier league

Everytime I pop in here there's another poster chatting wham about something it seems they have no real clue about.

It's like those people who read the tabloids and repeat stories to you as they are giving you their opinion, but really they are just rehashing some nonsense they read somewhere.
 

bicycleheader said:
Everytime I pop in here there's another poster chatting wham about something it seems they have no real clue about.

It's like those people who read the tabloids and repeat stories to you as they are giving you their opinion, but really they are just rehashing some nonsense they read somewhere.
Click to expand...
Tbf I imagine most opinions are formed via some sort of exposure
 
mikeh72 said:
So they won it 3 years before he came, and 3 years after he left? So they've pretty much been one of the best teams in Europe for the past decade regardless of him being there?
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Yeah, Enrique turned up after being completely average with Roma and wins the treble. Villanova won the league straight after Pep even Martino managed it. That side benefitted from having three of the greatest players of all time in it at the same time all in their peak at the same time. Then they were able to surround them with players that would be deemed greats at any other club Henry Etoo Villa Pedro Busquets Suarez Neymar Pique Alves Ibrahimovic. Just look at that list of players and some weren't even core players. Sanchez couldn't get a game in that team and is now probably the prems best player. That Barcelona team talent wise was unbelievable.

Guardiola is a good manager no doubt. He's helped though by comparisons to Martino and Enrique, who I consider to be average managers. They all won with that group of players but Pep did it better. Give that team in their prime to Mourinho Conte Wenger Ancelotti Ferguson though and they would have done exactly the same. Instead it was Pep right place right time and so is now revered as a god. His CL failings with Bayern and his current struggles with the best equipped club in England shows he is merely a very good manager.
 
Billy Dean said:
Just like Ajax's coach at the time is remembered as one of the best ever despite the fact he had some of the best players in the world to work with.
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Billy you are ignoring the fact that he produced Ajax from what? From nothing. Pep inherited a superclub - arguably THE superclub - packed with talent and limitless ability to attract talent. Totally different conditions. The achievement at Ajax was infinitely better.
 

Saint Domingo said:
Yeah, Enrique turned up after being completely average with Roma and wins the treble. Villanova won the league straight after Pep even Martino managed it. That side benefitted from having three of the greatest players of all time in it at the same time all in their peak at the same time. Then they were able to surround them with players that would be deemed greats at any other club Henry Etoo Villa Pedro Busquets Suarez Neymar Pique Alves Ibrahimovic. Just look at that list of players and some weren't even core players. Sanchez couldn't get a game in that team and is now probably the prems best player. That Barcelona team talent wise was unbelievable.

Guardiola is a good manager no doubt. He's helped though by comparisons to Martino and Enrique, who I consider to be average managers. They all won with that group of players but Pep did it better. Give that team in their prime to Mourinho Conte Wenger Ancelotti Ferguson though and they would have done exactly the same. Instead it was Pep right place right time and so is now revered as a god. His CL failings with Bayern and his current struggles with the best equipped club in England shows he is merely a very good manager.
Click to expand...

Failing to win the CL in 3 seasons means Ferguson had multiple 'failures' then? Is that a stick to beat him with? Or instead do we laud the fact he was domestically dominant and had a decent record in winning the CL, the hardest competition to win in world football, twice?

Also, which manager has won the CL within every 3 years SD?

None.
 
mkrudden said:
Failing to win the CL in 3 seasons means Ferguson had multiple 'failures' then? Is that a stick to beat him with? Or instead do we laud the fact he was domestically dominant and had a decent record in winning the CL, the hardest competition to win in world football, twice?

Also, which manager has won the CL within every 3 years SD?

None.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying he's not a very good manager mk. He is. I think Ferguson potentially could have won more but that's beside the point.

My point is he had a brilliant squad at Bayern one of the strongest in Europe in the three seasons he was there yet he didn't get past the semis going out to Atletico Real and Barca. This shows that he is up there with his peers as one of the best managers in Europe just like Simeone, Ancelloti etc. but it also shows that he is not a class above them either which some like to make out.

Enrique, an average manager in my view nowhere near as good as Pep, went and won the treble with those players at Barca which shows that those players in my view are a class above most of their peers. Indeed like I said before I think Messi Iniesta Xavi are three of the best of all time and had their peaks together. Pep's Barca was a combination of these great players marshalled by a very good manager. I think his efforts since Barca though prove that it was not a divinity of a manager taking good players to unbelievable levels.

He is in the top bracket of European managers but he is not above it in my opinion.
 
Saint Domingo said:
I'm not saying he's not a very good manager mk. He is. I think Ferguson potentially could have won more but that's beside the point.

My point is he had a brilliant squad at Bayern one of the strongest in Europe in the three seasons he was there yet he didn't get past the semis going out to Atletico Real and Barca. This shows that he is up there with his peers as one of the best managers in Europe just like Simeone, Ancelloti etc. but it also shows that he is not a class above them either which some like to make out.

Enrique, an average manager in my view nowhere near as good as Pep, went and won the treble with those players at Barca which shows that those players in my view are a class above most of their peers. Indeed like I said before I think Messi Iniesta Xavi are three of the best of all time and had their peaks together. Pep's Barca was a combination of these great players marshalled by a very good manager. I think his efforts since Barca though prove that it was not a divinity of a manager taking good players to unbelievable levels.

He is in the top bracket of European managers but he is not above it in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Top bracket without doubt. Certainly no worse than any of the other managers lauded on GoT. He did indeed create one of the best club sides ever to play the game, but he couldn't have done it without Xavi, Iniesta, Messi. Just like Rinus Michels couldn't have created the great Ajax and Netherlands sides without Cruyff, Neeskens etc.

I'd have Pep in the top bracket with Mourinho due to number of titles and CLs won in different countries. Personally I prefer Pep to Mourinho due to philosophy but that's just me. Simeone and Conte have a way to go to match them still, although may well do so. Ancelotti excels at the cups but has a less than stellar league record.
 
Saint Domingo said:
I'm not saying he's not a very good manager mk. He is. I think Ferguson potentially could have won more but that's beside the point.

My point is he had a brilliant squad at Bayern one of the strongest in Europe in the three seasons he was there yet he didn't get past the semis going out to Atletico Real and Barca. This shows that he is up there with his peers as one of the best managers in Europe just like Simeone, Ancelloti etc. but it also shows that he is not a class above them either which some like to make out.

Enrique, an average manager in my view nowhere near as good as Pep, went and won the treble with those players at Barca which shows that those players in my view are a class above most of their peers. Indeed like I said before I think Messi Iniesta Xavi are three of the best of all time and had their peaks together. Pep's Barca was a combination of these great players marshalled by a very good manager. I think his efforts since Barca though prove that it was not a divinity of a manager taking good players to unbelievable levels.

He is in the top bracket of European managers but he is not above it in my opinion.
Click to expand...
All very valid. A great post my friend.
 

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