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Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

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magicjuan said:
Imho, the main reason Labour got elected with Blair wasn't so much the shift politically but a rallying of core labour support sick to the back teeth of 17 years of tory rule.

He abandoned them having attained power, drunk on authority and self importance, cosying up to Murdoch et al to retain power, false dawn after false dawn.

It is ignored that new labour were a party within a party, in the same manner the charge is levied against momentum, and his supporters still have a stranglehold on the PLP with progress, a party within a party.

Then Iraq. Self importance. Ego. Powerlust.

I loath him more than Thatcher, you knew her ambitions and means, but never expected it from a labour leader.

The economics of it all are secondary, the performance of Osborne has been much worse.

It was ideological with Blair, personal.

As with Thatcher, I always believed Blair should be hung as a traitor to his people, and by that I mean the entire population. His response to Chilcott was the most verminous political wriggling I've ever heard or read. His
new found Catholicism wouldn't extend to a mea culpa.

A heinous man.
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Striking how different the paths of Blair and Brown have been since they left high office.

Brown remained an MP for a few years - unlike Cameron and Blair. He's taken up a number of unpaid advisory roles - all in areas which look to make a positive impact in the world. He does have a paid role with PIMCO but his entire salary from that goes to his foundation. Whilst it's true he gets a decent Parliamentry pension he could earn 10 times that per year if he wanted, he seems content with a quiet family life. He's still very much part of the Labour family and regularly mentors younger staffers.

Blair on the other hand whored himself off to the highest bidders. He couldn't wait to get away from the party once his own personal ambition had been fulfilled. A man who is easily won over by those with money or powerful connections. He has little time for anyone with the party, sporadically attending Progress events (The party within a party set up to drive forward Blairism).

As time continues to pass it gets easier and easier to see through Blair, Prescott hated him from the off and Brown gradually over time did. Blair wasn't a proper Labour man, it wasn't in his blood like it ran through Gordon's. It's actually quite criminal how much Blair took credit for policy which was during his premiership first thought up in a Number 11
 
tsubaki said:
The problem with Blair is that there are so many layers of horrid within him that people only see the most obvious stuff and don't care to peel that back to reveal the rest of what he is.

Look at what he did over Hillsborough, for instance - where at a time they had an almost unlimited mandate to expose past misdeeds, and where an overwhelmingly Labour community had been the victims of an an obvious cover-up, his government not only framed the terms of reference of Stuart-Smith in a way that would never expose the truth, they also claimed that was the end of the matter for as long as he remained in office. Burnham once suggested this was done as a favour to Murdoch, which is probably not a million miles away from the truth.
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It's no coincidence the Murdoch press swiftly moved back to the tories once Blair went. It was very much Blairs last FU to Brown.
 
chewee said:
It's no coincidence the Murdoch press swiftly moved back to the tories once Blair went. It was very much Blairs last FU to Brown.
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To be fair, there was that whole Blair / Wendi Deng thing around the same time. I think he must just be the sort of person who betrays everyone, like the viper in Aesop's fable.
 
I maybe opening myself up to serious flak here but I'll proceed anyway. (Because I is stupid... :) ) I have no problems with Tony Blair, I think it's just in fashion to hate him so everyone jumps on the bandwagon to be in line.

Has he whored himself out afterwards, absolutely. But I don't think it's anymore than your average US president and that's what Blair was, less MP and more of a charismatic leader, that's why people are willing to employ him. If Brown could get the money Blair has for advising he'd be doing it too. The trouble is they would have already fallen asleep listening to him at the interview stage before they got to the point where he was appointed.

I don't get this all he wasn't labour thing, by that do we mean he wasn't Neil Kinnock and just watching the tories in power? If Blair hadn't shaken up labour they would have probably still have won the 1997 election but would have been booted out again at the next one. Blair won 3 on the bounce, something that no other labour leader has ever done before and at this rate will do again. We have a problem of hating successful people in this country and this might be another case of it.

I tend to think hospitals, welfare etc. were better funded then than they are now. So I don't think we can call him an uber Tory in disguise.

We all know now that Iraq was a total waste of time and has done more harm than good but it's easy to say that with hindsight. After 9/11 he was put in a difficult situation where he wanted to back the US and the UN were dragging their heels. So he went balls in to show solidarity cause heaven forbid had it been 3 landmarks in the UK that had been hit by passenger planes killing over 3000, we would hope the US would be fully behind anything we thought was necessary also. Let's not forget Saddam Hussein did everything he could to block the weapons inspectors and usually innocent parties don't usually do that if they have nothing to hide. Who knew it turns out that the oppressive regimes all in all are better for our security, but 'Dave' helped toppled Gaddafi and that has caused endless crap because of it but the noose isn't being hung round his neck like Iraq is with Blair.

The labour party would do well to listen to him and take him back in a top job (after the Corbyn era obviously ) but they are so set against him it's pointless now. Of course he is no angel and has made mistakes but If someone can let me know who was a better all-round PM in the last 50 years I'm open and willing to be educated.

The way some of you talk about him you'd swear he was bloody Hitler.
 

What an absolute cretin, having stabbed everyone in the back and found himself sidelined he tries the mea culpa route.....

"Michael Gove has expressed regret at the way he handled the Tory leadership contest and said he is “most to blame” for his falling out with former ally Boris Johnson.

Speaking for the first time about his decision to pull support from Mr Johnson and run for the leadership himself, Mr Gove admitted the move sent him “crashing into a brick wall”.

He also reveals the depth of the rift with David Cameron over his backing of Brexit, saying the former prime minister feels “annoyed and let down”.

And the former justice secretary opens the door to a return to the front bench, indicating he would take up a ministerial jobs should it be offered if he thought it could “make a difference”.

I wouldn't let the back stabber anywhere near the front bench.......
 
For all the Labour diehards, no matter what your argument is, the fact Dianne Abbott represents the party pi**es on all of it. Can any of you champion this woman
 
Congen said:
And this monstrosity of a woman is a top player in the Labour Party(by the way she has said worse in other interviews) how can anyone now vote for this shambles! Apparently she has a special feeling for blonde haired blue eyed women from Scandinavia. The vile rat, Corbyn has a secret agenda to destroy labour
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Abbott is a bellend no doubt. a single cabinet appointment won't stop me voting for labour though.
 

Joey66 said:
Been in the party less than 12 months now a baroness on the front bench Shami Shami useless!
I will not vote Labour while Corbynism is tearing the party apart - olive branch already being snapped in to bits IMO! Yes
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Only ever voted labour in my life, I feel tens of thousands are like me and are appalled by who now represents this party
 
Joey66 said:
Been in the party less than 12 months now a baroness on the front bench Shami Shami useless!
I will not vote Labour while Corbynism is tearing the party apart - olive branch already being snapped in to bits IMO! Yes
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....for all the principles Corbyn exudes, I fear chroniism is alive and kicking in Labour as well as Tory ranks. I fear Corbyn is a puppet for those who work him, I fear we are seeing a rebirth of militant, I fear Ed Milliband has opened up party governance to allow a take over that will be very difficult to redress, I fear a breakaway, I fear governments of various shades of blue for the rest of my days. I fear for youngsters.
 

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