Hilary Benn Sacked From The Shadow Cabinet - wider political debate

[Gwladysstreetlad]

he was corrupt to begin with

100% correct this, he was corrupt to the core from day one. He's just became less bothered about hiding his corruption.

 

[roydo]

he was corrupt to begin with

He fooled me. And millions of others. Loathe him.

 

[Tubey]

He fooled me. And millions of others. Loathe him.

What I don't understand though is how Blair gets such hatred largely based on the Iraq War fiasco, yet the likes of Cameron get off basically scot-free on trying to eradicate the poor and disabled in this country with things like the Bedroom Tax and directly focused austerity cuts.

Not defending Blair at all either, but it seems people get riled up about things at random.

 

[Toffeelover]

The 3rd way....

The 3rd Reich...

Ich bein ein Blairite

The 4th Reich

Ich Bein ein Thatcherite, Tories uber alles!

 

[Toffeelover]

Certianly correct me if i am wrong on this.

but are we not tacking the ISIS problem the wrong way? Reading there they want to retake the city blah blah blah. What if rather than protect the people in the city, evacuate them instead. Remove ISIS biggest problem. Just do a mass multi country evacuation of the people and designate areas to move them to temporarily if they wise to move. then when ISIS take the city unapposed, then have multiply armed forces all take them out in one swoop, let them think they are winning before we just decimate them in one area leaving them scrambling back in fewer numbers.

Just a theory anyway, finer detials may need to be ironed out beforehand

ISIS will not let people leave.

 

[Toffeelover]

got my mum coming to stay over tomorrow mate so nothing too exciting planned.

Don't forget the uniform and salute with the greeting Heil Mein Fuhrein.

 

[Clint Planet]

he was corrupt to begin with

Not so sure. Maybe. He certainly failed to deliver in terms of trustworthiness. It's largely forgotten now that "Tory Sleaze" was a bye-word for the lamentable situation of the day. Sadly - f---ing annoyingly, actually, "Tony's Cronies" soon deflected all blame from the Right.

That Blair govt actually achieved a lot in its time but it could have been SO much better. The cronyism was depressing; the betrayal of the vulnerable all but unforgivable.

And then came the lies and the warmongering. The war-crimes and the lack of humility.



And yet the Labour Party grandees wonder how it's come to this.....

 

[gorgeousgeorgeEFC]

What I don't understand though is how Blair gets such hatred largely based on the Iraq War fiasco, yet the likes of Cameron get off basically scot-free on trying to eradicate the poor and disabled in this country with things like the Bedroom Tax and directly focused austerity cuts.

Not defending Blair at all either, but it seems people get riled up about things at random.

The argument is that the huge budget deficit that Labour left us with (which still hasn't been completely bridged) necessitated the swingeing spending cuts that Cameron made. The idea is that the markets would have lost confidence in the UK's ability to pay off its creditors had we continued to let the deficit balloon. Not sure I buy that like.

 

[atrottel]

What I don't understand though is how Blair gets such hatred largely based on the Iraq War fiasco, yet the likes of Cameron get off basically scot-free on trying to eradicate the poor and disabled in this country with things like the Bedroom Tax and directly focused austerity cuts.

Not defending Blair at all either, but it seems people get riled up about things at random.

I think you'll find most of the loathing for Blair comes from Labour supporters who feel he betrayed just about everything that the party (and, people believed, he) stood for. I know some people here aren't old enough to remember it, but in the pre- and post-first-election glow, he was seen to be a pleasant, charming, electable Andy Burnham-type. He bore the hopes of millions of people with him and stamped them in the dust.

I wouldn't say he disgusts me as much as Thatcher or her henchmen (and -women) but I expected their behaviour and his development into Murdoch's errand-boy and subsequent faith-based personal snake-oil merchant was something that was like a slow-motion train wreck. As far as I'm concerned he can stay in Uzbekistan and preach the new world order to dictators with open chequebooks.

 

[Tubey]

The argument is that the huge budget deficit that Labour left us with (which still hasn't been completely bridged) necessitated the swingeing spending cuts that Cameron made. The idea is that the markets would have lost confidence in the UK's ability to pay off its creditors had we continued to let the deficit balloon. Not sure I buy that like.

It didn't necessitate where those cuts were made - precisely to the neck of the poor and disabled.

 

[Tubey]

I think you'll find most of the loathing for Blair comes from Labour supporters who feel he betrayed just about everything that the party (and, people believed, he) stood for. I know some people here aren't old enough to remember it, but in the pre- and post-first-election glow, he was seen to be a pleasant, charming, electable Andy Burnham-type. He bore the hopes of millions of people with him and stamped them in the dust.

I wouldn't say he disgusts me as much as Thatcher or her henchmen (and -women) but I expected their behaviour and his development into Murdoch's errand-boy and subsequent faith-based personal snake-oil merchant was something that was like a slow-motion train wreck. As far as I'm concerned he can stay in Uzbekistan and preach the new world order to dictators with open chequebooks.

I think that's just it - people didn't expect it from Blair, so the disappointment in him amplifies the hatred.

I'm just not that way inclined. I see Blair as someone who failed and was ultimately corrupt - but I see Cameron as an odious scumbag who wanted to decimate the most vulnerable in our society from the off, so what he did wasn't "failure"; it was success. That's the difference to me.

 

[Ashtonian]

Or we could just nuke the whole country, get rid of ISIS and the migrant problem and test our technology......Win, Win, Win, scenario..........

Yeah, except that is kind of the opposite of saving innocents lol

ISIS will not let people leave.

By force they will. It's a war zone, secure little areas and evacuate bit by bit etc

 

[magicjuan]

Not so sure. Maybe. He certainly failed to deliver in terms of trustworthiness. It's largely forgotten now that "Tory Sleaze" was a bye-word for the lamentable situation of the day. Sadly - f---ing annoyingly, actually, "Tony's Cronies" soon deflected all blame from the Right.

That Blair govt actually achieved a lot in its time but it could have been SO much better. The cronyism was depressing; the betrayal of the vulnerable all but unforgivable.

And then came the lies and the warmongering. The war-crimes and the lack of humility.



And yet the Labour Party grandees wonder how it's come to this.....

Imho, the main reason Labour got elected with Blair wasn't so much the shift politically but a rallying of core labour support sick to the back teeth of 17 years of tory rule.

He abandoned them having attained power, drunk on authority and self importance, cosying up to Murdoch et al to retain power, false dawn after false dawn.

It is ignored that new labour were a party within a party, in the same manner the charge is levied against momentum, and his supporters still have a stranglehold on the PLP with progress, a party within a party.

Then Iraq. Self importance. Ego. Powerlust.

I loath him more than Thatcher, you knew her ambitions and means, but never expected it from a labour leader.

The economics of it all are secondary, the performance of Osborne has been much worse.

It was ideological with Blair, personal.

As with Thatcher, I always believed Blair should be hung as a traitor to his people, and by that I mean the entire population. His response to Chilcott was the most verminous political wriggling I've ever heard or read. His
new found Catholicism wouldn't extend to a mea culpa.

A heinous man.

 

[The Esk]

Don't forget the uniform and salute with the greeting Heil Mein Fuhrein.

Think this joke (such as it was) is past its sell by date mate. No more please.

 

[tsubaki]

Imho, the main reason Labour got elected with Blair wasn't so much the shift politically but a rallying of core labour support sick to the back teeth of 17 years of tory rule.

He abandoned them having attained power, drunk on authority and self importance, cosying up to Murdoch et al to retain power, false dawn after false dawn.

It is ignored that new labour were a party within a party, in the same manner the charge is levied against momentum, and his supporters still have a stranglehold on the PLP with progress, a party within a party.

Then Iraq. Self importance. Ego. Powerlust.

I loath him more than Thatcher, you knew her ambitions and means, but never expected it from a labour leader.

The economics of it all are secondary, the performance of Osborne has been much worse.

It was ideological with Blair, personal.

As with Thatcher, I always believed Blair should be hung as a traitor to his people, and by that I mean the entire population. His response to Chilcott was the most verminous political wriggling I've ever heard or read. His
new found Catholicism wouldn't extend to a mea culpa.

A heinous man.

The problem with Blair is that there are so many layers of horrid within him that people only see the most obvious stuff and don't care to peel that back to reveal the rest of what he is.

Look at what he did over Hillsborough, for instance - where at a time they had an almost unlimited mandate to expose past misdeeds, and where an overwhelmingly Labour community had been the victims of an an obvious cover-up, his government not only framed the terms of reference of Stuart-Smith in a way that would never expose the truth, they also claimed that was the end of the matter for as long as he remained in office. Burnham once suggested this was done as a favour to Murdoch, which is probably not a million miles away from the truth.