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Old Blue 2 said:
This, on that link, is incorrect: "... The twin-engined Bf110 heavy fighter proved unable to hold its own in combat with the more nimble single-engined RAF fighters..." The fact was that during the Battle of Britain it performed as well as the other 3 main fighters...
Click to expand...
There's a lot of misinformation about this depending on the time and style use of use during the battle and afterwards, with the Bf110B and C being the key points.

At the start of the operation, the Luftwaffe had started with 237 serviceable Bf110s with 223 being lost - 14 being left from the original aircraft that were deployed.

That's a very high loss of aircraft even when you consider that there were additional squadrons/groups were deployed throughout the four months.

Admittedly, the Bf110 did shoot down reasonable numbers of RAF, which is what you may be referring to, but with the ratio it's hard to argue they performed well.

I've read in some places where The Bf109s and Bf110s ratios are compared in small samples and they're similar, but over the fourth months they are not.

This could however be attributed to how it was used: slower flying with rigid formations to escort bombers. It's lack of manoeuvrability was thus highlighted.

It's own In later operations, it was far more effective and especially as a night fighter against the bomber formations. Still, the numbers are what they are I guess.
 
PhilM said:
There's a lot of misinformation about this depending on the time and style use of use during the battle and afterwards, with the Bf110B and C being the key points.

At the start of the operation, the Luftwaffe had started with 237 serviceable Bf110s with 223 being lost - 14 being left from the original aircraft that were deployed.

That's a very high loss of aircraft even when you consider that there were additional squadrons/groups were deployed throughout the four months.

Admittedly, the Bf110 did shoot down reasonable numbers of RAF, which is what you may be referring to, but with the ratio it's hard to argue they performed well.

I've read in some places where The Bf109s and Bf110s ratios are compared in small samples and they're similar, but over the fourth months they are not.

This could however be attributed to how it was used: slower flying with rigid formations to escort bombers. It's lack of manoeuvrability was thus highlighted.

It's own In later operations, it was far more effective and especially as a night fighter against the bomber formations. Still, the numbers are what they are I guess.
Click to expand...

First of all, the Bf 110 B was not used in the Battle of Britain.

The Bf 110 C was, C-1 through to C-7 sub-variants.
The Bf 110 D was, and, towards the end of the Battle, the Bf 110 E.

You quote the Bf 110 losses without quoting the losses of the other three main fighters.

'...The Bf109s and Bf110s ratios are compared in small samples..." Don't know what you have been looking at, since you don't mention it. This is the real scenario:
 
Old Blue 2 said:
First of all, the Bf 110 B was not used in the Battle of Britain.

The Bf 110 C was, C-1 through to C-7 sub-variants.
The Bf 110 D was, and, towards the end of the Battle, the Bf 110 E.

You quote the Bf 110 losses without quoting the losses of the other three main fighters.

'...The Bf109s and Bf110s ratios are compared in small samples..." Don't know what you have been looking at, since you don't mention it. This is the real scenario:
Click to expand...
It was a few years ago, but I read a book by Weal who focused specifically on the Bf110. All the information came from what I read there and the picture he painted.

That attachment doesn't work, either. Happy to be corrected though.

I also just found this by Dildy.

The Bf109E continued to assert its superiority, shooting down 114 RAF fighters (20 perfect of the force)... for the lost of sixty "Emils" (seven percent of the force), a 1:1.9 "kill ratio". However, 67 Bf110s (27% of initial strength) were lost during the same seven day period, the Zerstörer proving itself incapable of performing its mission.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
PhilM said:
It was a few years ago, but I read a book by Weal who focused specifically on the Bf110. All the information came from what I read there and the picture he painted.

That attachment doesn't work, either. Happy to be corrected though.
Click to expand...

Phil,

Forget that last post. I attempted to edit it, and ran out of time!

Here is the full post:

First of all, the Bf 110 B was not used in the Battle of Britain.

The Bf 110 C was, C-1 through to C-7 sub-variants.
The Bf 110 D was, and, towards the end of the Battle, the Bf 110 E.

You quote the Bf 110 losses without quoting the losses of the other three main fighters.

'...The Bf109s and Bf110s ratios are compared in small samples..." Don't know what you have been looking at, since you don't mention it. This is the real scenario:
Spitfire losses: 394
Hurricane losses 603
Bf 109 losses: 534
Bf 110 losses: 196

In fact, here's the full shakedown for the Battle of Britain:
nIMKhiX.jpg


This point is correct: 'slower flying with rigid formations to escort bombers.' It should have been used, as should the Bf 109, as a forward interceptor seeking out the opposition and engaging ever before the RAF fighters got to the bombers. Thankfully, both types were mis-used.

It was used very effectively as a fighter-bomber during the Battle, albeit with losses, but then every unit in the Battle of Britain suffered losses - that is a 'given'.

There is a lot of misinformation about the Bf 110, from 1960s publications right up to present.

I do know a little bit about the Bf110.
 

PhilM said:
It was a few years ago, but I read a book by Weal who focused specifically on the Bf110. All the information came from what I read there and the picture he painted.

That attachment doesn't work, either. Happy to be corrected though.
Click to expand...

One must use John Weal's book about the Bf 110 with a certain amount of caution on certain things...
 
PhilM said:
It was a few years ago, but I read a book by Weal who focused specifically on the Bf110. All the information came from what I read there and the picture he painted.

That attachment doesn't work, either. Happy to be corrected though.

I also just found this by Dildy.
Click to expand...

Phil,
Two books I would highly recommend are:
'The most dangerous enemy' by Stephen Bungay, and
'Duel of Eagles' by Peter Townsend.

Both superb.
 

Joey66 said:
There were blackouts with the miners strike'..........in the 3 day week in the 1970,s too....
Click to expand...
I was a Computer manager during the 3 day week. We had a big Caterpillar generator to run the computer, lights etc., When the blackouts were on and all the houses, shops and factories in the area were in darkness, we shone brightly. Didn't half cause some upset. People writing, complaining to the local paper.
 

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