History

stipe said:
Normans replaced mostly aristocracy, no? Ordinary people remained (culturally) Anglo-Saxons and Germanic language prevailed over Franco-Norman (who of course added their own influence).

Same way with Franks in what would become France, Germanic tribe of Franks invaded Roman (very populous) Gallic provinces and replaced their ruling structure. But they were too few in numbers and with centuries simply got swallowed in Romanized Gallic populace, only name of the country remained.
Or take Spain for example, nothing remains of former Germanic Visigothic Kingdom.
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The language thing is especially important given what happened at the start of the Dark Ages, when Saxon rule was established in what is now England - modern English contains very few words from old Welsh except place names, which would suggest something approaching a genocide occurred.
 
tsubaki said:
The language thing is especially important given what happened at the start of the Dark Ages, when Saxon rule was established in what is now England - modern English contains very few words from old Welsh except place names, which would suggest something approaching a genocide occurred.
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From what i understand in Britain and France opposite happened.
Invading Germanic Anglo-Saxons managed to force their culture and language in old Roman Britain simply because it was sparsely populated (especially in ensuing chaos after Roman military abandoned island).

On other hand old Roman Gallic provinces in what is now France were one of the most populated parts of Europe (and it would remain so until industrial revolution in mid 19th century) so invading Franks never managed to force their language and culture over much larger Romanized population they ruled.
Only thing that remains of Franks is the name.
 
stipe said:
From what i understand in Britain and France opposite happened.
Invading Germanic Anglo-Saxons managed to force their culture and language in old Roman Britain simply because it was sparsely populated (especially in ensuing chaos after Roman military abandoned island).

On other hand old Roman Gallic provinces in what is now France were one of the most populated parts of Europe (and it would remain so until industrial revolution in mid 19th century) so invading Franks never managed to force their language and culture over much larger Romanized population they ruled.
Only thing that remains of Franks is the name.
Click to expand...
You can definitely see more similarities in German/Dutch to English than French.

FFS, they should have just left Latin alone. A universal language would have made life so much more easier today.
 
PhilM said:
In the 1960s US prior to the Civil Rights Act (sometimes, still after), you would often see signs saying No Dogs, No N....., No Irish.

If you listen to Elvis Costello's - Oliver's Army, you'll hear a common slur during the 70s too, which I remember as a child.
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Just saw that the Irish rugby team beat SA by one point on their home turf.

I read that at sporting events they sing ‘Ireland’s Call’ instead of their actual national anthem, which is ‘The Soldiers Song’.
And I can only assume it’s because ‘The Soldiers Song’ is depressing as hell!
Why are all the Irish folk songs so bloody morbid?
Fields of Athenry
Danny Boy
Johnny I hardly knew ya
Toora Loora Loora

I’m sure they don’t have happy hour in Ireland, it’s probably called sad hour over there. 😂
Maybe that’s why they play rugby so well? They carry it with them and use it?
‘Aye lad, us Irish have a deep sadness that we’ve carried with us since time in memorial…’ 😳
 

stipe said:
From what i understand in Britain and France opposite happened.
Invading Germanic Anglo-Saxons managed to force their culture and language in old Roman Britain simply because it was sparsely populated (especially in ensuing chaos after Roman military abandoned island).

On other hand old Roman Gallic provinces in what is now France were one of the most populated parts of Europe (and it would remain so until industrial revolution in mid 19th century) so invading Franks never managed to force their language and culture over much larger Romanized population they ruled.
Only thing that remains of Franks is the name.
Click to expand...

TBF there probably wasn't chaos after the Roman military withdrew from Britain, at least at first, and it is not clear that the country was sparsely populated or that society collapsed - urban life went on in many places (St Patrick was from one of them).

The few fragments of history that survive from that time generally talk about barbarian attacks and requests for help, and then relatively suddenly - between when Gildas was writing to the time of St Augustine's mission - most of what is now England is now pagan and foreign.
 

Tommy Chong said:
Just saw that the Irish rugby team beat SA by one point on their home turf.

I read that at sporting events they sing ‘Ireland’s Call’ instead of their actual national anthem, which is ‘The Soldiers Song’.
And I can only assume it’s because ‘The Soldiers Song’ is depressing as hell!
Why are all the Irish folk songs so bloody morbid?
Fields of Athenry
Danny Boy
Johnny I hardly knew ya
Toora Loora Loora

I’m sure they don’t have happy hour in Ireland, it’s probably called sad hour over there. 😂
Maybe that’s why they play rugby so well? They carry it with them and use it?
‘Aye lad, us Irish have a deep sadness that we’ve carried with us since time in memorial…’ 😳
Click to expand...
Amhrán na bhFiann is a great anthem and is that of the Republic and Republicans in the wee 6. That awful dirge Ireland's Call was written as a supposed neutral song that all traditions on the island could sing. It is a terrible cacophony.

Both are played at Home games in the South but only the dirge outside the Republic.

Incidentally, Amhrán na bhFiann is played before every important GAA match including those in the wee 6.

@Armaghtoffee @Taifi gorm
 
Bluerover said:
Amhrán na bhFiann is a great anthem and is that of the Republic and Republicans in the wee 6. That awful dirge Ireland's Call was written as a supposed neutral song that all traditions on the island could sing. It is a terrible cacophony.

Both are played at Home games in the South but only the dirge outside the Republic.

Incidentally, Amhrán na bhFiann is played before every important GAA match including those in the wee 6.

@Armaghtoffee @Taifi gorm
Click to expand...
It probably sounds better in Gaelic I'd imagine...
 
Bluerover said:
Amhrán na bhFiann is a great anthem and is that of the Republic and Republicans in the wee 6. That awful dirge Ireland's Call was written as a supposed neutral song that all traditions on the island could sing. It is a terrible cacophony.

Both are played at Home games in the South but only the dirge outside the Republic.

Incidentally, Amhrán na bhFiann is played before every important GAA match including those in the wee 6.

@Armaghtoffee @Taifi gorm
Click to expand...
Phil Coulter ranks with Cromwell for the creation of that pretentious dirge.
 

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