How stupid are Manu?

[LinekersLegs]

I disagree that the squad is paper thin.

Its unbalanced...despite having time to strengthen in the weak areas theyve overloaded with some positions and weak in others...numbers wise.

Look at Right back similar situation to us...centre forward again similar to us...

There are a couple of areas that they have overloaded but most positions have little depth

GK they have lots of choice, De Gea/Romero/Valdes/Johnstone, weird as it is an area you rarely rotate.

RB Darmian and Valancia (a converted winger who is now injured) - thin
LB Shaw but no other specialist LB, Blind/Rojo/Young as cover - weak particularly given Shaw spent most of last year with niggling knocks.
CB Smalling/Jones, both have awful injury records, Rojo hasn't really impressed and also injury prone, Blind, Mcnair - numbers wise have depth but given injury history was a major risk not getting another CB in the summer especially given requirement to cover fullbacks.

Striker Martial and Rooney - very weak given the number of competitions they are in and Martial's youth
LW Depay, Young and Lingard - good mix
RW Mata not even sure that it is his best position and no winger backup with Januzaj on loan - very weak

Midfield is one of the stronger areas with Herrera, Pereira, Fellaini, Schneiderlin however both Carrick and Schweinsteiger injury prone.

For over quarter of a billion pounds that seems a paper thin squad to me Zat with little cover in multiple areas let alone experienced/specialist cover.

 

[Zatara]

GK - 4 players
RB- 2 players
CB - 4/5 players
LB - Shaw (rojo is LB for argentina)
CM - 6 players
LW - 3 players
CF - 2 players
RW -1 player (?)

Using the players youve mentioned they have 2 players for every position which should be enough (barring RW but i guess one of the LW could move over...also youth coming through apparently.

I think they've just bought really randomly and gone for individuals rather than trying to shape a team.

Poor buying but managers like LVG and Mourinho usually go for 2 players for every position but generally 3 forwards.

There are a couple of areas that they have overloaded but most positions have little depth

GK they have lots of choice, De Gea/Romero/Valdes/Johnstone, weird as it is an area you rarely rotate.

RB Darmian and Valancia (a converted winger who is now injured) - thin
LB Shaw but no other specialist LB, Blind/Rojo/Young as cover - weak particularly given Shaw spent most of last year with niggling knocks.
CB Smalling/Jones, both have awful injury records, Rojo hasn't really impressed and also injury prone, Blind, Mcnair - numbers wise have depth but given injury history was a major risk not getting another CB in the summer especially given requirement to cover fullbacks.

Striker Martial and Rooney - very weak given the number of competitions they are in and Martial's youth
LW Depay, Young and Lingard - good mix
RW Mata not even sure that it is his best position and no winger backup with Januzaj on loan - very weak

Midfield is one of the stronger areas with Herrera, Pereira, Fellaini, Schneiderlin however both Carrick and Schweinsteiger injury prone.

For over quarter of a billion pounds that seems a paper thin squad to me Zat with little cover in multiple areas let alone experienced/specialist cover.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

GK - 4 players
RB- 2 players
CB - 4/5 players
LB - Shaw (rojo is LB for argentina)
CM - 6 players
LW - 3 players
CF - 2 players
RW -1 player (?)

Using the players youve mentioned they have 2 players for every position which should be enough (barring RW but i guess one of the LW could move over...also youth coming through apparently.

I think they've just bought really randomly and gone for individuals rather than trying to shape a team.

Poor buying but managers like LVG and Mourinho usually go for 2 players for every position but generally 3 forwards.

then take away this lot...

M Darmian Hamstring Injury 19th Dec 15 very doubtful
C Smalling Groin/Pelvis Injury 19th Dec 15 very doubtful
M Schneiderlin Hip/Thigh Injury 12th Dec 15 slight doubt
M Rojo Dislocated Shoulder no return date
Rooney Ankle/Foot Injury 28th Dec 15 doubtful
A Herrera Hamstring Injury 19th Dec 15 doubtful
P Jones Ankle/Foot Injury 28th Dec 15 doubtful
A Valencia Ankle/Foot Injury Feb 16
L Shaw Broken Leg Apr 16

 

[Zatara]

No club can account for 9 injuries for first choice players at a single moment...

then take away this lot...

M Darmian Hamstring Injury 19th Dec 15 very doubtful
C Smalling Groin/Pelvis Injury 19th Dec 15 very doubtful
M Schneiderlin Hip/Thigh Injury 12th Dec 15 slight doubt
M Rojo Dislocated Shoulder no return date
Rooney Ankle/Foot Injury 28th Dec 15 doubtful
A Herrera Hamstring Injury 19th Dec 15 doubtful
P Jones Ankle/Foot Injury 28th Dec 15 doubtful
A Valencia Ankle/Foot Injury Feb 16
L Shaw Broken Leg Apr 16

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

No club can account for 9 injuries for first choice players at a single moment...

Correct, but yet you think somehow their current problems on the pitch are not down to having too few players in their squad.

Not enough players = Squad could be bigger.

 

[LinekersLegs]

GK - 4 players
RB- 2 players
CB - 4/5 players
LB - Shaw (rojo is LB for argentina)
CM - 6 players
LW - 3 players
CF - 2 players
RW -1 player (?)

Using the players youve mentioned they have 2 players for every position which should be enough (barring RW but i guess one of the LW could move over...also youth coming through apparently.

I think they've just bought really randomly and gone for individuals rather than trying to shape a team.

Poor buying but managers like LVG and Mourinho usually go for 2 players for every position but generally 3 forwards.

But you are ignoring talent for the position, experience and fitness records which is fine on paper but you can't do in the real world.

If you assign Rojo as LB then Smalling/Jones/Blind/McNair numbers wise is just about OK but is a pathetic CB lineup for a club like United - I really like Blind but he isn't a specialist CB instead more a jack of all trades, McNair too raw to be first choice cover and Smalling/Jones rarely manage to make the putch together even if you rate them both.

Not to mention two talented and experienced players is often not enough as Baines/Oviedo have shown this season, in the ideal squad you are best having a youngster as third choice cover. Their LW profile is what they should have all over the pitch.

You say no club should account for 9 injuries at one time but tbh it is not unsual especially during the winter months to have 7 players or more out - currently there are 5 teams in that position and another four (including ourselves) with 6. That is particularly true if you go into a season with injury prone players which United have.

 

[Zatara]

What would you say is the optimal number of players in a squad to ensure each player has competition and they all get sufficient game time to be happy...?

I say 2 players for each position but 3 strikers and 3 keepers = 24 players.

Then a handful of youth prospects attempting to push through...

Correct, but yet you think somehow their current problems on the pitch are not down to having too few players in their squad.

Not enough players = Squad could be bigger.

 

[Zatara]

I'm not debating about the players they have signed..i agree with you that theres been no logical planning done and it seems theyve bought really randomly

As ive just posted, i think 24 players is fine with a handful of youth coming though and pushing for places to. Then if there are a lot of injuries a utility player should be able to cover, a player could be played out of position or a youth player.

For me, 3 first team players for every position is too many to keep happy.

I certainly wouldnt have made most of the signings LVG has...what would you have done differently?

But you are ignoring talent for the position, experience and fitness records which is fine on paper but you can't do in the real world.

If you assign Rojo as LB then Smalling/Jones/Blind/McNair numbers wise is just about OK but is a pathetic CB lineup for a club like United - I really like Blind but he isn't a specialist CB instead more a jack of all trades, McNair too raw to be first choice cover and Smalling/Jones rarely manage to make the putch together even if you rate them both.

Not to mention two talented and experienced players is often not enough as Baines/Oviedo have shown this season, in the ideal squad you are best having a youngster as third choice cover. Their LW profile is what they should have all over the pitch.

You say no club should account for 9 injuries at one time but tbh it is not unsual especially during the winter months to have 7 players or more out - currently there are 5 teams in that position and another four (including ourselves) with 6. That is particularly true if you go into a season with injury prone players which United have.

 

[LinekersLegs]

I'm not debating about the players they have signed..i agree with you that theres been no logical planning done and it seems theyve bought really randomly

As ive just posted, i think 24 players is fine with a handful of youth coming though and pushing for places to. Then if there are a lot of injuries a utility player should be able to cover, a player could be played out of position or a youth player.

For me, 3 first team players for every position is too many to keep happy.

I certainly wouldnt have made most of the signings LVG has...what would you have done differently?

Don't necessarily think it has to be three players for every single position but if a first choice player is in their 30s/under 23/poor injury history then decent third choice cover is wise as the odds are the first choice will have to sit out a larger portion of the season than a healthy player in their prime. Smalling/Jones/McNair might be a decent profile for RCB alone for example but (along with Blind and Rojo who themselves are cover elsewhere) to cover both CB positions it is far too little given their poor health records.

For a club with our wage budget and out of Europe I agree with you that it is a challenge to keep that type of squad depth happy. For a club with United's resources, ambitions and game demands (they should be planning on quarters or semis in their cup runs at least) you are more likely to be able to, at least for a season or two.

Personally believe LVG was too enthusiastic to get down to a small squad and didn't take the clubs injury history and the physical demands of the premier league into account.

Mourinho also likes a small squad, which imo is a large part of his problems this season and why he rarely succeeds in the 3rd year, but at least his players have historically been healthy - United have in recent years been near the top of the annual injury tables. Typically so have Everton which is part of the reason why I disagree with your desire for a radical cleanout of our fringe players!

http://www.physioroom.com/research/

 

[Zatara]

For Mourinho i think the reason he falls short in season 3 is because he signs players usually at their peak who run through walls for him to get winners medals and then alot dont have the hunger to keep putting in the hard yards...also the squad size may well be a factor but he doesnt have the young element pushing through which could be factored in...

Personally i think this "mix" of Everton and United players this season would be interesting if all fit at season start:

GK -- De Gea/Valdes/Romero
LB -- Baines / Shaw
CB - Stones / Smalling / Jagielka /Mori
RB - Coleman / Darmian
CM - Schneiderlin / Barry /Herrera /McCarthy
LW - Depay / Mirallas
AM - Barkley / Rooney
RW - Deulofeu / Mata
CF - Lukaku /Martial

I'm one short on forwards as neither team really has enough

Also, adding in Galloway and up to 4 more u21 players there to push the first teamers.

That would be an interesting squad i think.

Don't necessarily think it has to be three players for every single position but if a first choice player is in their 30s/under 23/poor injury history then decent third choice cover is wise as the odds are the first choice will have to sit out a larger portion of the season than a healthy player in their prime. Smalling/Jones/McNair might be a decent profile for RCB alone for example but (along with Blind and Rojo who themselves are cover elsewhere) to cover both CB positions it is far too little given their poor health records.

For a club with our wage budget and out of Europe I agree with you that it is a challenge to keep that type of squad depth happy. For a club with United's resources, ambitions and game demands (they should be planning on quarters or semis in their cup runs at least) you are more likely to be able to, at least for a season or two.

Personally believe LVG was too enthusiastic to get down to a small squad and didn't take the clubs injury history and the physical demands of the premier league into account.

Mourinho also likes a small squad, which imo is a large part of his problems this season and why he rarely succeeds in the 3rd year, but at least his players have historically been healthy - United have in recent years been near the top of the annual injury tables. Typically so have Everton which is part of the reason why I disagree with your desire for a radical cleanout of our fringe players!

http://www.physioroom.com/research/

 

[LinekersLegs]

For Mourinho i think the reason he falls short in season 3 is because he signs players usually at their peak who run through walls for him to get winners medals and then alot dont have the hunger to keep putting in the hard yards...also the squad size may well be a factor but he doesnt have the young element pushing through which could be factored in...

Personally i think this "mix" of Everton and United players this season would be interesting if all fit at season start:

GK -- De Gea/Valdes/Romero
LB -- Baines / Shaw
CB - Stones / Smalling / Jagielka /Mori
RB - Coleman / Darmian
CM - Schneiderlin / Barry /Herrera /McCarthy
LW - Depay / Mirallas
AM - Barkley / Rooney
RW - Deulofeu / Mata
CF - Lukaku /Martial

I'm one short on forwards as neither team really has enough

Also, adding in Galloway and up to 4 more u21 players there to push the first teamers.

That would be an interesting squad i think.

Still a little risky for me Zat, especially if you add in European demands. You'd need to specify the U21 cover and ensure it was good enough to fill in for some of the postions since if you were putting that together in the summer you'd have been assuming
a) quick adapation to a new league which has happened in some cases (Mori, Martial) but not in others (Depay, Darmian)
b) good fitness by players whose previous season was troubled by injury eg Baines/Shaw

Anyhow this is straying off topic - Man Utd make some very stupid decisions

 

[Zatara]

Every successful side always has a few local players (or English) as the core yet Utd dont really have any that stand out now other than Rooney and Smalling.

Van Gaal should have signed Stones so he had Englands centre backs and personally i think he should have tried for Barkley as well...not to say he would have been sold but if i was Van Gaal thats what i would have done.

Got the best two prospects in England who are current internationals.

Instead he seems to have taken a scattergun approach.

 

[SpurtingLesbian]

@Zatara so you still don't think that THIS, tonight's Utd shows they have a thin squad?

• 01 de Gea
• 30 Varela
• 33 McNair
• 17 Blind
• 43 Borthwick-Jackson
• 27 Fellaini
• 16 Carrick
• 35 Lingard
• 08 Mata
• 07 Depay
• 09 Martial

is that even half a first team? two kids making a full debut in defence?

 

[Zatara]

Not even looked at other games tbh.

That defence is shocking.

One thing though, van gaal signs the players...he had the money yet didnt go for premier league experience in defence..

Also 9 or 10 injuries is mad...cant plan for that.

@Zatara so you still don't think that THIS, tonight's Utd shows they have a thin squad?

• 01 de Gea
• 30 Varela
• 33 McNair
• 17 Blind
• 43 Borthwick-Jackson
• 27 Fellaini
• 16 Carrick
• 35 Lingard
• 08 Mata
• 07 Depay
• 09 Martial

is that even half a first team? two kids making a full debut in defence?

 

[zirc]

I am loving this