How stupid are Manu?

[neil999]

Could well be part of it.

There is something wrong with United though. Maybe too much interference from the board level or something? It seems like even the strongest personalities are having a hell of a time there with both Van Gaal and Mourinho struggling under the pressure. Neither of them are exactly bottlers.

Mourinho would have been better off going anywhere but there, I think. It's a bit of a poison chalice right now, and probably will require a really special personality with no real connection to United to right the ship...someone not intimidated by having Ferguson watch over their shoulder and the business arm probably pushing signings. Or a generation to pass.

similarities to liverpool after dalglish..

 

[RaleighBlue]

similarities to liverpool after dalglish..

Yes, very similar honestly.

I think United's time has passed unless something drastic happens. They'll always be up around the top, and maybe even win some things, but I think their dominance is gone - and not just because City are a thing.

Moyes killed that club. He was a bottler and when United had such a poor season under him, the panic buttons all got pressed and now they have this whole aura of panic and confusion going on.

Well in, Moysie.

 

[PhilM]

Moyes killed that club.

Without intending to support Moyes, I think that's a pretty unfair assessment of the situation that has arose since Ferguson's departure.

Don't get me wrong, Moyes was arguably not the right man to take over the reigns and neither was his tenure a period of progression or success.

But their problems were much deep rooted than his appointment and as such their recent period of failure can't solely be contributed to one man.

Ferguson left an ageing squad that was also filled with some questionable talent and whoever took over the club would need to remedy this.

Add to that, Ferguson was the patriarch and his power underpinned the club so when he and Gill left simultaneously it was a recipe for failure.

Moyes had to rebuild the squad while apparently facing frequent coup d'etats from his more experienced players and with inexperienced support.

It was never going to work and therefore as you said all the panic buttons were pressed. Van Gaal suffered from the same flaws in the club.

José has now came in with the remit of fixing it but I doubt he'll get the time to do so as it really needs rebuilding over time.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Without intending to support Moyes, I think that's a pretty unfair assessment of the situation that has arose since Ferguson's departure.

Don't get me wrong, Moyes was arguably not the right man to take over the reigns and neither was his tenure a period of progression or success.

But their problems were much deep rooted than his appointment and as such their recent period of failure can't solely be contributed to one man.

Ferguson left an ageing squad that was also filled with some questionable talent and whoever took over the club would need to remedy this.

Add to that, Ferguson was the patriarch and his power underpinned the club so when he and Gill left simultaneously it was a recipe for failure.

Moyes had to rebuild the squad while apparently facing frequent coup d'etats from his more experienced players and with inexperienced support.

It was never going to work and therefore as you said all the panic buttons were pressed. Van Gaal suffered from the same flaws in the club.

José has now came in with the remit of fixing it but I doubt he'll get the time to do so as it really needs rebuilding over time.

I don't think it was his fault. I still think he did it.

He was the worst possible (reasonable) choice for the job as it stood. The followup to Ferguson needed to be an incredibly strong personality, to weather any possible disruptions from the old guard players and sack them off if they needed it. Someone that could have come right in and started rebuilding.

Moyes never could have done that, and the lost time killed any chance they had of walking the tightrope.

 

[Jags..class]

Jose doesn't look happy at all, he lost his spark.

 

[dandydan]

I don't think it was his fault. I still think he did it.

He was the worst possible (reasonable) choice for the job as it stood. The followup to Ferguson needed to be an incredibly strong personality, to weather any possible disruptions from the old guard players and sack them off if they needed it. Someone that could have come right in and started rebuilding.

Moyes never could have done that, and the lost time killed any chance they had of walking the tightrope.

His talk of taking a knife to a gunfight when playing against Utd won't have done him any favours when he took over the very same team.

 

[Khalekan]

His talk of taking a knife to a gunfight when playing against Utd won't have done him any favours when he took over the very same team.

It was before a City game he said that, Dan

 

[dandydan]

It was before a City game he said that, Dan

So it was. But it's still a fair point given his record of talking Evertons chances down.

 

[Bustard]

Always thought that was a weird signing for them. Van Gaal gets dragged through the mud for playing negative boring football so their response is... Mourinho?

We have been much better to watch under Mourinho compared to LVG imo. We are still [Poor language removed] but the football is better and more positive. I think Mourinho gets too much criticism for his football as it seems to be only the big games where he turns proper defensive.

It did work against Liverpool but against Chelsea it fell apart as Smalling+Blind made 2 huge mistakes.

 

[Bustard]

Could well be part of it.

There is something wrong with United though. Maybe too much interference from the board level or something? It seems like even the strongest personalities are having a hell of a time there with both Van Gaal and Mourinho struggling under the pressure. Neither of them are exactly bottlers.

Mourinho would have been better off going anywhere but there, I think. It's a bit of a poison chalice right now, and probably will require a really special personality with no real connection to United to right the ship...someone not intimidated by having Ferguson watch over their shoulder and the business arm probably pushing signings. Or a generation to pass.

From what I understand our board doesn't interfere at all. The Glazers have left all decisions to Woodward who doesn't seem to interfere and leaves the decisions to the managers.

We are having a bad time because our squad is pretty imbalanced. Our team is a mess really and will need a year or two to fix I think

 

[RaleighBlue]

From what I understand our board doesn't interfere at all. The Glazers have left all decisions to Woodward who doesn't seem to interfere and leaves the decisions to the managers.

We are having a bad time because our squad is pretty imbalanced. Our team is a mess really and will need a year or two to fix I think

Maybe just pressure then? Or bringing in managers past their prime?

Can't be easy trying to stamp your brand and personality on that club while Sir Alex watches on from the stands.

 

[Bustard]

Maybe just pressure then? Or bringing in managers past their prime?

Can't be easy trying to stamp your brand and personality on that club while Sir Alex watches on from the stands.

Nah from what I have seen so far is that Fergie doesn't get involved or interfere now. I kinda think he had his influence cut by the Glazers after picking Moyes.

IMO, we have had two horrible managers in Moyes and Van Gaal.

Fellaini, Mata, Falcao, Di Maria, Depay, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Blind, Shaw, Rojo, Darmian

How many good transfers? Herrera, Shaw and Blind basically.

Fixing this mess will take more than one year. Mourinho will need time

 

[Bustard]

Without intending to support Moyes, I think that's a pretty unfair assessment of the situation that has arose since Ferguson's departure.

Don't get me wrong, Moyes was arguably not the right man to take over the reigns and neither was his tenure a period of progression or success.

But their problems were much deep rooted than his appointment and as such their recent period of failure can't solely be contributed to one man.

Ferguson left an ageing squad that was also filled with some questionable talent and whoever took over the club would need to remedy this.

Add to that, Ferguson was the patriarch and his power underpinned the club so when he and Gill left simultaneously it was a recipe for failure.

Moyes had to rebuild the squad while apparently facing frequent coup d'etats from his more experienced players and with inexperienced support.

It was never going to work and therefore as you said all the panic buttons were pressed. Van Gaal suffered from the same flaws in the club.

José has now came in with the remit of fixing it but I doubt he'll get the time to do so as it really needs rebuilding over time.

Yes I agree it would be too simple to blame it on Moyes.

In 2009 we sold Ronaldo and Tevez and replaced them with Valencia and Owen. Those were our financial restrictions due to the Glazers and their interest repayments. We should have signed the likes of Aguero and Silva but instead we went after Bebe, Young and Jones.

The squad left behind by Ferguson was pretty average. If Mourinho had gotten the job in 2013 then he would have also managed to squeeze a title out of it probably but instead it went to Moyes who went into complete meltdown.

 

[Doink]

Without intending to support Moyes, I think that's a pretty unfair assessment of the situation that has arose since Ferguson's departure.

Don't get me wrong, Moyes was arguably not the right man to take over the reigns and neither was his tenure a period of progression or success.

But their problems were much deep rooted than his appointment and as such their recent period of failure can't solely be contributed to one man.

Ferguson left an ageing squad that was also filled with some questionable talent and whoever took over the club would need to remedy this.

Ferguson also left an infrastructure that had proven to produce results and develop players. Ferguson himself said that he left most of the coaching to his staff. Moyes decided for whatever soft arse reason to completely gut it at the first opportunity he got. Meulensteen out, Phil Neville in. Ridiculous.

 

[PhilM]

Ferguson also left an infrastructure that had proven to produce results and develop players. Ferguson himself said that he left most of the coaching to his staff. Moyes decided for whatever soft arse reason to completely gut it at the first opportunity he got. Meulensteen out, Phil Neville in. Ridiculous.

With hindsight it would be fair to say the decision was foolhardy and in reality he should have retained some of the first team coaching staff.

However, I can also to some extent understand his original logic of wanting to impose his own position regardless of the final outcome.

Ferguson was the long-term patriarch and I presume he wanted to remove those shackles and cement his own position or authority.