Howard

[steken1]

He's a coward simple as that.

 

[billycopper]

Kudos to posting the facts - they are eye opening (because he is nowhere near as bad as some would make out, very very eye opening stats). I would agree with Neiler that Tim's facing a bigger barrage this season - in particular on the ground - and that's partially what is troubling him. Looks like when you get in the box and are 1 v 1, Tim's not having a good year. Hence, the starfish and the stupid header from this week.

Thanks billycopper, this stuff is great. I'm going to stick to my want of having someone other than Mucha to have as a backup and challenger - open to that, but I stilll don't want to sell him. His stats show that. I'm really hoping he'll turn it around on the ground game and regain his form. As the saying goes, form is temporary, class permanent. Some can argue he doesn't have that permanent stuff, to each his own. Fair enough based on this year.

I like Howard as a person but the stats seem to support the view that he is average at best. If we want to be a top 4 team then I don't think we can afford to carry a middling goalkeeper. Ideally our defence would make it very difficult to get through to the 'keeper and on the rare occasions where our rearguard was breached the man between the sticks would take some beating. Unfortunately, there have been times this season where Tim hasn't even got the basics right. If he was otherwise keeping us in games I could be more forgiving, but I can't remember too many saves that he's made where I wouldn't expect him to save it.

Take West Ham as an example. I've tried to figure out how they're so high up the league given that they're no great shakes and they don't have a lot of goals in the team. The stats seem to point to Jaaskeleinen being a key figure. Begovic has been important for Stoke too and Tremmel has had to be good to keep Vorm out. If we had a goalie making a similar impact we could possibly be on the coat tails of City.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

So we can expect the best manager in the world to notice the problem and take action as soon as possible?

No, ok then.

 

[ijjysmith]

So we can expect the best manager in the world to notice the problem and take action as soon as possible?

No, ok then.

This is sadly the problem.

Howard is like Neville. A Moyes shoe in. Going nowhere.

Even if we had another keeper of note he probably wouldn't play.

*sigh

 

[billycopper]

Absolutely disagree. Stats help tell a story about shot stopping, distribution, ability to handle crosses...Billycopper's posts were fascinating. Are they the full story? Of course not. And I don't agree on style either because I rated Tim for Everton as early as last year. And the many years before that. He's poo *this year* for me, which means form, not style. I know people don't want to hear it, but if it's style, it would appear on the national team too. And it doesn't. Which is why I was using it as an example.

We absolutely could use a challenger. I agree with that - can't keep going the way we are. Forever putting Tim on shelf - nah. I'd rather we have two viable options and see which one nets out on top. I'm not ready to kick him out.

Moyes has said recently that he's enquired about Jack Butland as one for the future. Now, if Howard goes on as long as Friedel he'll have at least another 5 years at the top, so it seems an odd time to think about succession. Plus we'd have to invest mullions in Butland and he wouldn't join us unless he was likely to be first choice in the next two or three years.

Tim has been acceptable for us while we've been competing for 6th-10th place. He's not terrible but he's rarely a game-changer. This year our expectations have increased and maybe Moyes has finally decided that upgrading our goalkeeper is a priority. I would expect the manager to bring in a new 'keeper to replace Mucha and to see whether it will push Tim to raise his game. Moyes' faith in Howard does seem to be showing some small cracks at the moment.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

This is sadly the problem.

Howard is like Neville. A Moyes shoe in. Going nowhere.

Even if we had another keeper of note he probably wouldn't play.

*sigh

He'll notice its a problem and get a replacement in.

Only it will be about 6 months at least, possibly 2 years after everyone else notices it and knows it needs doing.

If Mucha really is so bad that he's not even worthy of playing 1 game to even try and give Howard a kick up the ass then why the hell is he at the club? Either use him when your number 1 is gash or get rid of him, save his wage and use a youth keeper as emergency reserve.

 

[Brownie]

In reality we should just sell the majority of our squad because they're not particularly amazing and sign excellent players instead. Hopefully the board will facilitate this with some investment.

 

[steken1]

He'll notice its a problem and get a replacement in.

Only it will be about 6 months at least, possibly 2 years after everyone else notices it and knows it needs doing.

If Mucha really is so bad that he's not even worthy of playing 1 game to even try and give Howard a kick up the ass then why the hell is he at the club? Either use him when your number 1 is gash or get rid of him, save his wage and use a youth keeper as emergency reserve.

Sense.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Sense.

1 game. If he's gash and concedes crappy goals then we're as we were with Howard. If he's good we get a decent keeper and Howard works hard in training at saving balls and avoiding goalposts. Doesn't make sense not to use him for one game.

 

[ah11984]

I live in the West Mids and see quite a lot of Butland... not sure he is ready to be a regular starter in the Premier League, very promising but still looks a novice at times.

 

[BigBlueConk]

There is definatley something not right with Tim Howard this season, whether it be form or 'something else'.

Some of the goals that have gone past him, he does not even resemble a goalkeepr in his style of trying to make a save. It isn't every game, but he does look odd when these things have happened.

He needs a break from the team.

 

[ijjysmith]

I live in the West Mids and see quite a lot of Butland... not sure he is ready to be a regular starter in the Premier League, very promising but still looks a novice at times.

To be honest as much as I rate the lad I can't see us getting him anyway.

 

[Kay20]

But a keeper near the bottom of the league will more than likely make more saves than a keeper near the top. It doesn't mean Rob Green is a better keeper than Joe Hart just because he's made more saves.

Keepers stats need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I'm all for Tim having some competition. But he needs dropping. And needs it ASAP.

And hang on a minute.

Did you say you don't have a problem with his style of play?!

Absolutely we should take them with probably more than just a pinch of salt. But they are not meaningless either. Compromise here is the best approach most likely. All I can say in regards to Howard is that by looking at the stats, he is not the worst keeper in the league this year. By quite a bit. Still doesn't excuse his clangers this year for us - no doubt.

I don't have a problem with Howard's style of play, no. Do I have a problem with his current form? 100%. And if we had someone else other than Mucha, I would consider dropping him. But we don't. I don't know much about Mucha, but if Moyes is still not putting him in with the recent howlers by Tim - no confidence in Mucha.

 

[Kay20]

I like Howard as a person but the stats seem to support the view that he is average at best. If we want to be a top 4 team then I don't think we can afford to carry a middling goalkeeper. Ideally our defence would make it very difficult to get through to the 'keeper and on the rare occasions where our rearguard was breached the man between the sticks would take some beating. Unfortunately, there have been times this season where Tim hasn't even got the basics right. If he was otherwise keeping us in games I could be more forgiving, but I can't remember too many saves that he's made where I wouldn't expect him to save it.

Take West Ham as an example. I've tried to figure out how they're so high up the league given that they're no great shakes and they don't have a lot of goals in the team. The stats seem to point to Jaaskeleinen being a key figure. Begovic has been important for Stoke too and Tremmel has had to be good to keep Vorm out. If we had a goalie making a similar impact we could possibly be on the coat tails of City.

Those are only the stats for this year though, right? Just curious. I believe his stats in the previous years were much better from what I remember posted.

We could possibly be on the coat tails of City for a bunch of reasons - Tim definitely being one of them. Jelavic scoring would be another, or Osman hitting the target another. Mirallas not going down...etc. Don't think it's fair to pin that one only on Tim...though man has he contributed this year. More than in previous years for sure. No excuses. A few points are definitely pinned right to his bald little head. And trust me, he knows it.

 

[Kay20]

He's a coward simple as that.

BS

Just my opinion, like.