2018/19 Idrissa Gueye

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

You have to make up your mind, do you want him to make key passes, or so you want him to keep the ball? You keep saying he gives the ball away cheaply. I’ve never heard anyone make that claim and there is absolutely no empirical evidence that is the case.

He’s an amazing defensive midfielder. He’s the best tackler and maybe the best ball winner in the PL. He doesn’t make key passes because he’s a defensive midfielder.

Sadly people with mindsets like him are why great defensive players like Kante don't win the Ballon D'Or

It's not a style of play that's appreciated, even though it's so important to a successful team

 

[CRIMHEAD]

Fernandinho & Torreira. That’s 2

Stats-wise, Gana plays a more expansive passing game than Torreira. He averaged more long balls, more through passes, and more key passes. He also has twice as many tackles and more interceptions.

Regardless, Gana is playing a different role and he’s playing it well. I wanted Torriera here, too, he’s a great player. But he’s just not needed if Gana is here as badly as other positions.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

Sadly people with mindsets like him are why great defensive players like Kante don't win the Ballon D'Or

It's not a style of play that's appreciated, even though it's so important to a successful team

Clearly managers value it based on fees. It’s pretty obvious how bad we look when Gana doesn’t play. Regrdless, people here mix evaluation of players quality vs. styles all the time. Siggy is hated by a few not because he’s bad, but because he didn’t hold the ball like Ross and played a one touch game - thus he’s a coward. Gana is hated by a few not because he’s bad, but because he doesn’t run with the ball and make killer passes and score goals.

 

[BernieH]

He just wasn’t a bit at Barca. He holds the ball and runs with it. Barca doesn’t want that. They want the ball moved. Quick passing.

fair point, well their loss is our gain, so far he's a joy to behold, you can tell he has that extra quality, something we've been starved of for a while.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Clearly managers value it based on fees. It’s pretty obvious how bad we look when Gana doesn’t play. Regrdless, people here mix evaluation of players quality vs. styles all the time. Siggy is hated by a few not because he’s bad, but because he didn’t hold the ball like Ross and played a one touch game - thus he’s a coward. Gana is hated by a few not because he’s bad, but because he doesn’t run with the ball and make killer passes and score goals.

Sadly true

The less "exciting" players will always have a harder time of it because they're less flashy

It's the way of the life. Some football fans are both snobbish and shallow when it comes to which players they deign to rate

I've said it before on here, but my favourite non Everton player of all time is Claude Makelele. The man turned defensive midfielding into an art form. Players like Kante and Gana are the continuations of his legacy

Having a solid defensive base is key for any team to be successful. Gana is pivotal to the way we play, and sadly I think he'll have to leave for his detractors to finally realise that

 

[EFC78]

Sadly people with mindsets like him are why great defensive players like Kante don't win the Ballon D'Or

It's not a style of play that's appreciated, even though it's so important to a successful team

From a personal perspective, I also think it's the hardest position to judge an opposition player as a neutral. The likes of Kante and Fernandinho stand out because they've played in title winning sides so they are on TV a lot. You only really notice defensive midfielders otherwise when they're in your own team and if you value what they bring.

 

[EFC78]

He is what he is, a defensive specialist and a damn good one in my opinion, he must be a nightmare to play against when hes at it, he doesn't let the opposition breathe, it is enjoyable to watch if, like me you also take pleasure in those types of qualities as well as the flair bits. Having a lad like Gana really allows the more gifted players with the ball more freedom to find space and make runs; which if weren't so well covered they wouldn't make.

The fact he and Gomes compliment each other so well is good for us as well because Gomes has that extra bit of quality that wouldn't be out of place in any team in this division. I can't believe he was so bad at Barca because so far for me he is right up there, what a joy to watch and a lot of it stems from Gana(although Gomes puts a good shift in too, an all rounder) but equally it shows how bad Schneiderlin has been to be honest. I've gone off on a tangent there lost my train of thought ha.

Sometimes it amazes me how quickly he responds to a loose ball to get there before the opposition. He also made a slide tackle in one of our previous home games where he slid for ages to win it, and he had no right to get to it. With the modern game having gone the way it has, with slide tackles on the decline, I enjoy watching players like Gana.

If more limited players had no place at the better sides in the Premier League then there is no way Man City would have entertained the idea of having James Milner or Fabian Delph. Yet both have forged a good career for themselves in top sides. Different players to Gana, but still very limited in comparison to the likes of David Silva. Every side needs one or two and Gana and Gomes work very well together.

 

[BernieH]

Sometimes it amazes me how quickly he responds to a loose ball to get there before the opposition. He also made a slide tackle in one of our previous home games where he slid for ages to win it, and he had no right to get to it. With the modern game having gone the way it has, with slide tackles on the decline, I enjoy watching players like Gana.

If more limited players had no place at the better sides in the Premier League then there is no way Man City would have entertained the idea of having James Milner or Fabian Delph. Yet both have forged a good career for themselves in top sides. Different players to Gana, but still very limited in comparison to the likes of David Silva. Every side needs one or two and Gana and Gomes work very well together.

Most top sides have a water carrier and Gana is ours, surround him with quality and he will shine because he is allowed to do what he does best, having Schneiderlin back as his partner after Gomes is giving me nightmares.

 

[Papa Shango]

As you’re obviously into stats to prove your point. Maybe you could find his Key pass stats or how many chances he creates, or his pass stats over a certain distance, or his forward passes.

Because last night most of his successful ones were short passes square or back. Most of his forward ones, especially with a bit of distance on them.

You can go on about stats all you like, but anyone saying Gana is a good passer is blinkered.

Is anyone saying he is a good passer?

I think the contention comes when someone says his passing is awful. It's not. He has a bad pass in him of course but everyone does. He sees so much of the ball that there will always be more chance of him losing possession.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Why would he be assessed on chances created when he's a defensive midfielder though? That isn't what he's in the team for, because we have Sigurdsson, Gomes and Bernard for that.

As for saying he is a good passer, i've never claimed that - I said it is a weakness of his, just it isn't as awful as some make out.

He's played less games than Kante, and has more passes forward though since that's one of the things you mention. 238 for Gana to 188 for Kante. I'm not a big fan of stats in general, just thought it would provide a bit of context in this particular aspect of the debate. When I watch him I see a limited player on the ball, who can be careless in possession (was especially careless the last 2 games), but someone who does the defensive side of the game very well and also is key to injecting an intensity in our play by constantly hounding the opposition players and winning the ball back. His ability to know where the ball is going to be to intercept or step up to make a tackle is one of his best attributes too in my opinion.

And there it is. The Gana get out of jail free card. Well played sir

Been hearing fir 12 months, he’s a defensive midfielder, it’s not his job to create chances or even find his team mates With a pass.

As long as he recovers the ball’s he loses, everything is sweet.

 

[Camboselecta]

Love Gana!! I wonder if you minus the amount of times he gives the ball away from the amount of times he gets it back, what his net ball wins would be? Bet he wouldnt be high up the table of top DM's then.

I think he is great and looks set to be even better with Gomes but he has to pass better.

If he leaves then we will have serious issues. Who would win us the ball?

 

[EFC78]

And there it is. The Gana get out of jail free card. Well played sir

Been hearing fir 12 months, he’s a defensive midfielder, it’s not his job to create chances or even find his team mates With a pass.

As long as he recovers the ball’s he loses, everything is sweet.

It seems to me that in an attempt to gain the upper hand in the discussion you're just making things up now. No Evertonian would say that Gana is not required to find his team mates with a pass. Why would they? It's a requirement for every single player in the team quite obviously and that includes Pickford.

We both agree that Gana has a weakness in this area and we'd both like him to improve this aspect of his game.

If you think a defensive midfielder is in the team to create chances then I disagree.

 

[BlueToff]

Is anyone saying he is a good passer?

I think the contention comes when someone says his passing is awful. It's not. He has a bad pass in him of course but everyone does. He sees so much of the ball that there will always be more chance of him losing possession.

I think the frustration comes from - and rightly so - the fact that he concedes possession at times when we're building up.

I've lost count of the number of times that we've been moving forward and then he misplaces a simple 10 yard pass.

 

[Papa Shango]

I think the frustration comes from - and rightly so - the fact that he concedes possession at times when we're building up.

I've lost count of the number of times that we've been moving forward and then he misplaces a simple 10 yard pass.

Yeah deffo. Maybe others should take responsibility more as well?

Gomes is a good start like.

 

[Strikinglyhandsome1]

Who would win us the ball?

His replacement.

Personally, I don’t see this as the most pressing position to change. His strengths and weaknesses are there for all to see but who knows what next season holds and who will be here.

Hopefully the water-carrier and the champagne Carlinhos can keep building on their double act as it’s currently the heartbeat of the team.

The whole team will benefit from seeing a master craftsman like Gomes