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2018/19 Idrissa Gueye

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Is anyone saying he is a good passer?

I think the contention comes when someone says his passing is awful. It's not. He has a bad pass in him of course but everyone does. He sees so much of the ball that there will always be more chance of him losing possession.

Problem for me us that Gueye when he Ives it away with a shocking pass nearly always results in a dangerous counter, in large part because he's the deepest one back out the midfield and others have bombed on ahead, someone else gives it away its invariably in front of him so not nearly as much of a problem as gueye is there to cover and win it back.
 
Yeah deffo. Maybe others should take responsibility more as well?

Gomes is a good start like.

Oh definitely, but at the end of the day mate, Gana is a midfielder and does have to be better with that.

He makes good runs on the ball at times and then completely lets himself down by misplacing an easy pass.

I love Gana, he's ace at what he does, and while I agree the onus has to be on the better players to get on the ball, we don't really want Gylfi or Richarlison dropping into the centre to pick up and run with it, only to have nobody ahead of them.
 
Problem for me us that Gueye when he Ives it away with a shocking pass nearly always results in a dangerous counter, in large part because he's the deepest one back out the midfield and others have bombed on ahead, someone else gives it away its invariably in front of him so not nearly as much of a problem as gueye is there to cover and win it back.

Or, it'll go straight out of play.
 
Sadly true

The less "exciting" players will always have a harder time of it because they're less flashy

It's the way of the life. Some football fans are both snobbish and shallow when it comes to which players they deign to rate

I've said it before on here, but my favourite non Everton player of all time is Claude Makelele. The man turned defensive midfielding into an art form. Players like Kante and Gana are the continuations of his legacy

Having a solid defensive base is key for any team to be successful. Gana is pivotal to the way we play, and sadly I think he'll have to leave for his detractors to finally realise that
creativity is rarer and more difficult than destruction.
 

Good defensive football is very difficult indeed, and equally as rare

Any player can kick another one, but there's far more to the true art of defending
there is certainly an art to defending and the timing of a tackle which gana has, there is also a cerebral side in terms of positioning etc which I think Gana lacks a bit but is okay. That being said creative thinking has long being recognised as the highest form of thinking and that transmits through all forms of life including football, and creative players are rightly recognised as the rarest and most valuable. To suggest otherwise is delusion for the sake of an argument towards a favoured player
 
creative thinking has long being recognised as the highest form of thinking and that transmits through all forms of life including football, and creative players are rightly recognised as the rarest and most valuable.

I do recognise it

What I'm saying is that I disagree with it

It's a subjective opinion which I think is wrong, and I believe that elite level defensive players deserve more credit for the great work they do
 
there is certainly an art to defending and the timing of a tackle which gana has, there is also a cerebral side in terms of positioning etc which I think Gana lacks a bit but is okay. That being said creative thinking has long being recognised as the highest form of thinking and that transmits through all forms of life including football, and creative players are rightly recognised as the rarest and most valuable. To suggest otherwise is delusion for the sake of an argument towards a favoured player

This was so perfectly and eloquently put, you said everything I wanted to say only better.

And while we are here, let's not pretend that Gueye is truly in this upper echelon of Defensive players either. He has better stats than other players. Big deal. So does Niasse. Phil Neville was regularly a top performer for us by way of stats.

Stats can be very misleading. It's been discussed on here in various threads at length. Passing stats for example. Gueye has passing stats in the 80% range, but that only tells you the number of passes completed. If I played 100 10 yard passes along the floor in the defensive third, and occasionally just beyond the half way line, I'd expect at least 80 of them to reach their intended destination.

But stats don't tell you about the quality of said completed pass. They don't tell you if the destination player had to stop or check his run, even having to run backwards to meet it, or have to control an awkward ball fired in at neck height that is then, in all likelihood, going to result in a loss of possession. Those are still completed passes that go towards his stats, but they are not good passes by any means, and they do not help the team.

Similarly, his defensive/tackling stats. He's been near the top in this field since he joined the Prem, first for a god awful Aston Villa team, then a bang average Everton team, then a god awful Everton team, and now a much improved Everton team. And in each of those 4 years, with different players, managers, styles and approaches, he has out performed, in these areas at least, almost every other midfield player in the league. So why are his teams so consistently mediocre? If he is such a pivotal, important player, why does his presence not elevate the teams he plays for? Why does he continue to win back more possession for teams that are not performing well?

Because he is part of the reason the teams don't maintain possession in the 1st place, and is therefore required to do it more regularly.

All those stats prove are that we are inefficient with possession, and his passing is one element of this. I also believe the ground he covers, another apparent virtue of his, rather than make him a better player, only highlights his lack of positional sense or intelligence. The best players know where to be and when to be there, rather than just running wherever the ball is. 33 year old Gareth Barry, with not a fraction of his pace or stamina, read the game so much better, and therefore didn't need to run round like a man possessed. And that also meant he was very rarely caught out of position or leaving huge gaps in the centre that other teams could exploit.

Anyway, I digress. Those that see it, already see it, and those that don't will continue to argue that he is infallible, a joy to watch, that any midfield partner he has is the problem, but never him, and that he is inextricably linked to any success we have or will have and we simply couldn't get by without him.

I disagree, and simply don't buy into the midfield equivalent of the emperors new clothes that he is.

Lets just hope we can keep Gomes.
 
Problem for me us that Gueye when he Ives it away with a shocking pass nearly always results in a dangerous counter, in large part because he's the deepest one back out the midfield and others have bombed on ahead, someone else gives it away its invariably in front of him so not nearly as much of a problem as gueye is there to cover and win it back.
Thankfully he doesn't give it away very often.
 

Is it necessary to play Gana vs the likes of Newcastle who put 10 men behind the ball?

Yes but if we are chasing a win he could be sacrificed. We need to start all games with our strongest 11 which includes playing a defensive midfielder. However if we are chasing a game its not always essential as the opponent is probably sitting back.
 
Yes but if we are chasing a win he could be sacrificed. We need to start all games with our strongest 11 which includes playing a defensive midfielder. However if we are chasing a game its not always essential as the opponent is probably sitting back.

Fair point. Thought it was a little odd that when you are chasing a win you take Gylfi off before Gana.
 

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