"Is David Moyes Really As Good As People Make Out?"

[steken1]

Rumours of a 15m bid for the Jag.

Even if he could pass the ball I'd take that money for a player his age considering our finances overall.

With the club on the brink it seems, can we afford to allow Moyes to be stubborn and have the fianl say on who comes and who goes?

For me we should let him go even if it means only 5m goes back to Moyes for new players

 

[kenada_blue]

Rumours of a 15m bid for the Jag.

Even if he could pass the ball I'd take that money for a player his age considering our finances overall.

With the club on the brink it seems, can we afford to allow Moyes to be stubborn and have the fianl say on who comes and who goes?

For me we should let him go even if it means only 5m goes back to Moyes for new players

SELLL!

Or not because we cant spend it.

 

[Christiffa25]

Every manager has weaknesses and every manager makes mistakes with player transfers. SAF has made many mistakes with transfers over the years. Moyes was and still is a young manager who has done great things at this club from what he took over 10 years ago. He works in under ridiculous conditions in terms of money available and yes whilst his tactical decision's are questioned regularly these days personel is alot to do with the problems he faces.

You don't know what you've got till it's gone... I hope he's here for a long time with some money to have a fair crack at the whip!
One thing for sure is I would hate seeing him managing a sundeland who would give him some money..

 

[faddy the blue]

I think I'm losing my faith in Moyes rapidly tbh.

Every time we lost and play ****, he says the same stuff like " we didn't play well enough", " we were poor" and his favorite " I think we created chances but we lacked quality in the final third"

Here's thing he hasn't sorted out in the last 2 and a half years, " WHY?"

Why are we so poor against such lower teams?
Why are we consistently poor until december/january
why do we lack quality in the final third and why do you stick with that **** quality if it doesn't produce. Sell Vic cos he's the worst of the lot FFS!

He had money to spend in 2009 and when he had replaced lescott with distin then why did he buy Heitinga for 7 M on big wages and if that was the case then why did he stick with yobo?

 

[billycopper]

If there was any truth in it I'd think it would be that Moyes just pushes them that bit further. And over time this could have an adverse effect, which is why I was more keen to see later statistics.

In all likelihood it's probably not a big factor, but I thought it merited discussion and didn't deserve to be laughed off immediately. It's a fact that Moyes pushes players hard in training. I think I remember reading something on here about a player saying that Moyes used to push players so hard in pre-season that they'd end up vomiting.

Last year Fellaini and Cahill played when they weren't really fit because Moyes would rather play them than a fully fit inferior player. The chances are that they're going to compound their injuries. This would be less likely to happen at another club.

 

[alwaysblue]

Every manager has weaknesses and every manager makes mistakes with player transfers. SAF has made many mistakes with transfers over the years. Moyes was and still is a young manager who has done great things at this club from what he took over 10 years ago. He works in under ridiculous conditions in terms of money available and yes whilst his tactical decision's are questioned regularly these days personel is alot to do with the problems he faces.

You don't know what you've got till it's gone... I hope he's here for a long time with some money to have a fair crack at the whip!
One thing for sure is I would hate seeing him managing a sundeland who would give him some money..

Some good points mate. The issue I have with Moyes is his tactics sometimes. At the weekend was exactly the same as a year ago, so for me he hasn't learned a lesson. Beckford up front on his own, Rodwell on the wing not to mention the Fellaini/Beckford sub (with 3 strikers on the bench) was just awful. The Beckford and Rodwell points were more than proven last season.

He returns to type all the time (4-5-1) which worked when we were the 'underdogs', getting men behind the ball, defending deep and sneaking 1-0 wins. It is why we are getting results against the top teams who still see us as the lesser team. This is what teams do to us now and for me that is why we have started badly over the last couple of years. They know exactly how we are going to set up, who to press and are solid in their last third. When we have to come out and try (and expected) to win a game that is when we struggle, but when the other team has that responsibility we tend to get results.

I am pro-Moyes, but wish he would re-write the script a bit more.

 

[Robert Mercury]

sorry mate, dont agree with that atall, he has sold alot of players too and so really hasnt speant that much over the years

 

[Robert Mercury]

totally agree, moyes has done a brilliant job at our club, i just wish he would change his style because the players clearly dont work well under the current formation/tactics hes using.

 

[asif]

too be honest i have skipped 90 % of this thread but i am going to conclude your all wrong anyway!

 

[Matt Damon]

Nonsense indeed, The majority of serious injuries are soft tissue injuries, the cause of which will lay in the intensity of the sessions performed, not the amount of afternoons watching Jeremy Kyle.

Building muscle would not really help a professional footballer reduce the amount of injuries as you can strengthen ligaments and tendons without adding muscle, getting bigger would only slow them down and alter thier movement patterns.

Over a period of time these soft tissues are weakened and cannot stand up to the rigours of the game if over trained. Thats when you start seeing cruciates and serious ankle injuries etc. Ohter sides who do not train at our intensity levels for the same period of time are much less sucseptible to these types of injury.

The in-game injuries like a broken leg are sods law, certain injuries are down to the club not doing more to minimise the risk.

To be fair to Moyes he is reputedly very good at the sciences side of the game so I'd be suprised if our problems were down to over training as opposed to just having a small squad.

I'd take issue with some of that. It could be read by some to indicate that they are overtraining when they aren't.

Muscle mass results from increases in training muscle strength. That results in the muscles being able to contact quicker and more powerfully making the player faster but also able to jump higher and also not be easily knocked off the ball. Don't confuse this for power lifting FFS!

Tendons/ligaments can be strengthened by stretching and mixing up strength training with resilience training and aerobic activities that allow the tendons/ligaments to recover in between (e.g. swimming).


The fact that the club aren't focused on QUANTITY of sessions and are on the actual QUALITY of the sessions is the important thing.

You say rest days is not important. Actually thats wrong. It allows the muscles and soft tissues to recover after periods of training.

Its difficult to overtrain if you're planning appropriate rest periods in between!


Also in terms of quality we know they mix it up in terms of activities too, from what Phil Neville posts on Twitter about what training he's doing.

i.e. circuit training, pitch - ball skills, mini games, swimming, weight training... he even does Yoga

 

[sperlz]

I think its well known that David Moyes is a big fan of fitness training and he feels that it is an essential part of player development.

However I wish to adjust the point I made earlier if i may. Perhaps the intensity of Moyes training regimes does not directly affect the amount of injuries that we accrue. However I do believe it has an adverse effect on our early season form. I sometimes get the feeling that some players are going into the start of the season looking somewhat jaded and not able to offer 100% commitment to the games.

For example I read that after the QPR game, one poster stated that he felt Moyes should run a Sunday training session due to the poor result. I strongly believe doing such a thing would be to the detriment of the team.

I believe the team is good enough and fit enough to perform without rigorous training schedules and would be in a better condition both mentally and physically if they were not training to such intensity.

If players are using intense amounts of their willpower and physical effort in training, then surely that must have some kind of detriment when it comes to the actual match. I strongly believe that a more subtle approach to training would enable the players to go into matchday feeling more up for the game physically and mentally.

 

[davek]

One word: Prehabilitation.

 

[daz4matty]

Last season we had a great finish to the season with a paper thin squad and injuries and we are only 1 game into this season so why are people doubting david moyes.
I bet even if ferguson was our manager we would not be any better off.
The problem is with our lazy,useless,lying board .

 

[steken1]

I'd take issue with some of that. It could be read by some to indicate that they are overtraining when they aren't.

Muscle mass results from increases in training muscle strength. That results in the muscles being able to contact quicker and more powerfully making the player faster but also able to jump higher and also not be easily knocked off the ball. Don't confuse this for power lifting FFS!

Tendons/ligaments can be strengthened by stretching and mixing up strength training with resilience training and aerobic activities that allow the tendons/ligaments to recover in between (e.g. swimming).


The fact that the club aren't focused on QUANTITY of sessions and are on the actual QUALITY of the sessions is the important thing.

You say rest days is not important. Actually thats wrong. It allows the muscles and soft tissues to recover after periods of training.

Its difficult to overtrain if you're planning appropriate rest periods in between!


Also in terms of quality we know they mix it up in terms of activities too, from what Phil Neville posts on Twitter about what training he's doing.

i.e. circuit training, pitch - ball skills, mini games, swimming, weight training... he even does Yoga

The strength of any particular muscle is not dependant on it's size, more it fibre recruitment potential and make up of fibres, I.e. fast twitch.

The confusion you have made is that muscle size is directly related to strength which is not the case, something I know a fair deal about.

It's you that has made the confusion as the principles of power lifting are almost exactly the same as the situation you describe in your last post when the reality is that modern techniques mean that to improve jump height(spring) the majority of trainers use plyometrics, which helps a player maximise their potential without switching fibres which can limit their ability to perform aerobic tasks which is also a basis for Football training and performance.

Whether they are over-training is subjective IMO.

You may say that we only do the same as Man Utd, but it could be argued that Man Utd have a bigger squad and they can cope with injuries better. It could be argued that we could or should do less to minimise risk of injury to keep the squad healthier?

Looking at how we start every season you could make a case we over train at the beggining, the players start tired and we don't get results. When this tapers of into a maintenance phase the players energy levels recover and we start picking up points as other teams tire as they haven't reached our level of fitness overall.

 

[steken1]

BTW, Whats resilience training?