Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

  • Participation within this subforum is only available to members who have had 5+ posts approved elsewhere.

Is Messi the greatest player ever?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Alio said:
Footballing has changed since Maradona's day, I'm not denying he wasn't hacked down every other minute, but it's not Messi's fault or to his downfall that people don't try and break his leg every week. You can pick up a yellow now for taking your shirt off FFS, hey you can even get sent off for not even fouling someone - see Jack Rodwell. Let's not pretend Messi isn't fouled though or doesn't have players flying in on him as much as the next guy if not more. He's a dribbler, by his very nature he's going to draw more fouls and challenges than most

It's all opinions anyway, it's almost impossible to judge. You can only do it on medals won I guess. Saying that, lets conpare it to music, I'm pretty sure Westlife have as many number 1's as Elvis. The games changed, it's not Maradona's fault he's not playing now either, god knows how he'd perform.

It's Zidane anyway
Click to expand...

I accept that. He does face more than a series of cones to go around, quite obvioulsy! What I'm driving at though is that the challenges Maradona and talented players of his generation faced called for real character to get over and get out there and do what they had to do week in, week out. And it's not just the physical part of that - psychologically it must be a world of difference knowing that you'll get kicked all over the place without the opposition thinking too hard about the consequences and what happens now for Messi where he knows the opposition daren't do it because they'll be severely punished. It';s just a much better climate for supreme talent like Messi's and Maradona's to flourish in.

He's tough, Messi, certainly no wallflower or cry-baby. But I just wonder what effect having the monstors Maradona had breathing down his neck and stamping their studs over his legs in practically every game without punishement would have had on him. We can only guess, I suppose.
 
davek said:
That's all very valid and true, but until someone comes up with a better way of calculating greatness we're stuck with it. In any case, I think you're being overly harsh: these judgements are made on aesthetic and tangible stuff like counting medals. There's players with W/C, EC, multiple championships and even a few international awards thrown in who we'd never class as 'world's best.

We do make an overall, all round evaluation as best we can, and that's where the arguments come into it - when the aesthetic part of the equation is emphasised above actual and tangble achievements in order to elevate someone is when I start to question it.
Click to expand...

It's funny. One player that's never ever mentioned in these sort of lists is Paolo Maldini. Quite comfortably the best full back the world has ever seen (imo) and he has a list of honours as long as your arm. 7 Serie A titles, 5 Champions League titles, a World Cup + a runner up in both a WC and European Championship.
 

Andy Gray joke today.


Ronaldo-" God sent me to Earth with a gift, that gift was to show people how to play football".

Messi - " I never sent him anywhere".
 
Ok, let's forget the violent nature of the game from those days. Let's forget how Ratcliffe got away from getting booked in those days, nevermind a red card.

Can Messi run a game without making a single dribble? Maradona could do that and so could Zidane.

Now, let's imagine that Pelé was peruvian and that people wouldn't know of him; he didn't win anything.... Do you guys know who the **** was Zico? He's a brazilian legend that could not win a World Cup. Would he be up there with the big boys? Definitely. He didn't get a World Cup medal and only came to Europe in his thirties (still is a legend at Udinese) so people leave him out of the top ten of all time. This means that winning does matter.

Just for the record: would Santos be the team it was without Pelé? Would Brazil win 3 World Cups without Pelé?

Could Barcelona be the team it is without Messi? Probably not. But Barcelona could not be the same team without Xavi and Iniesta aswell. Btw, Iniesta got injured and Barcelona droped points in his absence.
 
Could Messi run the game without a single dribble?

What a stupid argument.

Maybe not, but could Zidane run the game without a single pass? Of course not.

That's like saying 'if Hibbert could cross, dribble shoot, tackle and pass he'd be the best in the world.'
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Funny how history tends to favour winners isn't it? Lets bare in mind that had the assault by Schumacher on Battison been dealt with properly it would probably have been France rather than a mediocre German side that would have faced Argentina in the final. You'd have to have fancied France to win that. Would we then be talking about Platini being the best ever? After all he achieved as much as Maradonna did in club football. Or should we say Mathaus is an all time great because he inspired an average West Germany to the Italia 90 crown over another poor Argentina side, not to mention inspiring Inter to rare success around the same time?

And lets face it, if you want to see training cone defence you only have to look at the goal Maradona scored against us. Peter Reid god bless him was blowing out of his arse after a few metres of chasing him and the rest of the defence was abject at best. At least in the identikit goal Messi scored he was sprinting the entire way rather than jogging as Maradona was.
Click to expand...

Interesting, Bruce, but the incident you refer to was in the 1982 World Cup and West Germany went on to face Italy in the final, not Maradona's Argentina. In the 1982 World Cup Maradona received a red card, Wayne Rooney style, for kicking a player in the nads.
 

teppic said:
Interesting, Bruce, but the incident you refer to was in the 1982 World Cup and West Germany went on to face Italy in the final, not Maradona's Argentina. In the 1982 World Cup Maradona received a red card, Wayne Rooney style, for kicking a player in the nads.
Click to expand...

Bruce Wayne said:
Was it? My bad :lol:
Click to expand...
But W Germany also beat France in the 1986 semi final before going on to lose to Argentina in the final. Probably where the confusion gas come. I do that sort of thing all the time.
The point is valid all the same. It should have been France playing against Italy in the 82 final
 
teppic said:
France lost both semis.

Not the sort of greatest player in the world material to me.
Click to expand...
As I mentioned on another post, If France had been able to count on the likes of Desailly and Thuram at that time, it might have been a different story.
Does the player make the team, or does the team make the player?
 
Maradona pulled a very average Napoli single handed to the title Serie A.

He then took Argentina to the World Cup with a string of stunning displays.

Platini was good, but not near Maradona.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome to GrandOldTeam

Get involved. Registration is simple and free.

Register
Back
Top