Is Messi the greatest player ever?

[mawders]

its a silly question to ask. Very diffcult to compare players across generations. Plus, for maradonna, we only saw him during tournaments, which helps to create some mystique and magic. Messi, we see all the time. I would just say that Pele was the best of his generation, Maradonna his generation, Zidane and messi likewise

 

[steken1]

its a silly question to ask. Very diffcult to compare players across generations. Plus, for maradonna, we only saw him during tournaments, which helps to create some mystique and magic. Messi, we see all the time. I would just say that Pele was the best of his generation, Maradonna his generation, Zidane and messi likewise

disagree. football is one of the easier to compare across generations as it's always going to be about skill and desire. the equipment doesn't mean too much.

 

[Kurt.]

disagree. football is one of the easier to compare across generations as it's always going to be about skill and desire. the equipment doesn't mean too much.

Of course it does...... Better boots and balls for a start and that's before you include training methods , diet, recovery techniques ..... Loads of differentials to consider.

 

[RaleighBlue]

disagree. football is one of the easier to compare across generations as it's always going to be about skill and desire. the equipment doesn't mean too much.

There is still the question of medicine and nutrition. The best players today are going to fundamentally be better than players in years past simply because the modern human is better nourished and more healthful than people in years past.

Additionally tactics changes considerably and that helps emphasize different skill sets and different types of players tend to stand out more or less.

Edited to add: Better nourished/more healthful through their physical developmental years in particular.

 

[tommye]

face it lads......

on last nights showing he is badly Adam.

 

[steken1]

Of course it does...... Better boots and balls for a start and that's before you include training methods , diet, recovery techniques ..... Loads of differentials to consider.

The players maradona played against had the same access to the same kit, nutrition etc. the fact he was so much better was down to skill. The same is true today of Messi, ronaldo etc. Football isn't down to simply who runs the quickest, who jumps the highest etc. It's as easy to compare Maradona/Messi as it is to compare Federer/Nadal.

 

[Muzumbu]

The greatest player ever would have done better than Messi did in a World Cup Final.

 

[steken1]

There is still the question of medicine and nutrition. The best players today are going to fundamentally be better than players in years past simply because the modern human is better nourished and more healthful than people in years past.

Additionally tactics changes considerably and that helps emphasize different skill sets and different types of players tend to stand out more or less.

Edited to add: Better nourished/more healthful through their physical developmental years in particular.

Physically better yes. At the very, very highest level their physical capabilities are secondary to what they can do with a ball.

 

[Warm Butter]

You could fatten Messi up and pump him full of sniff and see how he compares to Maradonna

 

[RaleighBlue]

Physically better yes. At the very, very highest level their physical capabilities are secondary to what they can do with a ball.

True to an extent. If player A can run twice as fast as player B and is twice as strong, and 2/3 as good with the ball, 9 times out of 10, Player A will win. It's still an athletic competition. So, to me, it's likely that Ronaldo and Maradona are, when not accounting for era, the 'best footballers ever'.

Accounting for era is where we can assume things like nutrition and fitness regimes are equal, and they are far less likely to be the best ever. But their is still the question of tactics. Would Messi have shined in Dixie's Everton? Would Dixie have shined in Messi's Barca? (I have no idea, as I'm not old enough to have watched Dixie, I'm just assuming the answers are no because of how many he scored with his head).

I actually agree that you can compare footballers more easily across generations, not because of the equipment being minimal, but because of the lack of good statistics. Football has yet to be numerically quantified very well, which means the physical attributes don't skew the numbers in a significant way and lead the eye astray. Of course the 'eye test' comes with it's own failings, such as the tendency to forget the mundane and ugly in favor of the spectacular.

I have no idea if Messi is the best ever when accounting for differences in era. Probably not, just because probability doesn't favor it, but I don't know. I do think the 'must win a World Cup' argument is nonsense. I also think that people tend to gloss over flaws from past players.

We'll never know. Because we'll never have a perfectly quantifiable objective statistical measure that eliminates all variance and ranks players perfectly.

 

[jaycee]

Theres a lot of players who were world class think the likes of Moore,Banks,Southall,Muller to name just a handful
Messi Ilove watching play Ronaldo on his day is as good as anybody so I wouldnt like to class any player as the greatest
ever,just enjoy watching them

 

[Baines' left foot]

Fair play to him for not crying his eyes out at the end of the game like all of those Brazilian pansies.

 

[blue4eva77]

Maradona is without doubt the greatest player i've ever seen. I will never be convinced otherwise. What Maradona did with the ball at his feet was magical. Such was his greatness, he had the opposition defeated before they even went out on the field. This is backed up by the fact that the sole tactic of the opposition was to take him out of the game.

Messi, a truly great player and will be remembered forever but he isn't on Maradona's level. Never for me.

 

[steken1]

True to an extent. If player A can run twice as fast as player B and is twice as strong, and 2/3 as good with the ball, 9 times out of 10, Player A will win. It's still an athletic competition. So, to me, it's likely that Ronaldo and Maradona are, when not accounting for era, the 'best footballers ever'.

Accounting for era is where we can assume things like nutrition and fitness regimes are equal, and they are far less likely to be the best ever. But their is still the question of tactics. Would Messi have shined in Dixie's Everton? Would Dixie have shined in Messi's Barca? (I have no idea, as I'm not old enough to have watched Dixie, I'm just assuming the answers are no because of how many he scored with his head).

I actually agree that you can compare footballers more easily across generations, not because of the equipment being minimal, but because of the lack of good statistics. Football has yet to be numerically quantified very well, which means the physical attributes don't skew the numbers in a significant way and lead the eye astray. Of course the 'eye test' comes with it's own failings, such as the tendency to forget the mundane and ugly in favor of the spectacular.

I have no idea if Messi is the best ever when accounting for differences in era. Probably not, just because probability doesn't favor it, but I don't know. I do think the 'must win a World Cup' argument is nonsense. I also think that people tend to gloss over flaws from past players.

We'll never know. Because we'll never have a perfectly quantifiable objective statistical measure that eliminates all variance and ranks players perfectly.

that can't happen. Footballs too objective, thankfully.

Quite simply, watching Ronaldinho play at his peak was like watching the greatest art created, on a weekly basis. his stats don't compare to others but it doesn't always matter. Nothing stopped zico playing that way 30yrs ago if he wanted. not nutrition, training methods, coaching or anything else. true greatness can only be supplemented by them things, it cannot be created from it.

 

[RaleighBlue]

that can't happen. Footballs too objective, thankfully.

Quite simply, watching Ronaldinho play at his peak was like watching the greatest art created, on a weekly basis. his stats don't compare to others but it doesn't always matter. Nothing stopped zico playing that way 30yrs ago if he wanted. not nutrition, training methods, coaching or anything else. true greatness can only be supplemented by them things, it cannot be created from it.

Oh, I agree.

I'm musing on what a waste of time it is to try and rank footballers. It's a silly exercise.

I do think coaching has a huge influence though. A manager like Moyes/Pulis/Allerdyce would not have behooved the creative geniuses that normally make up the 'best of all time' lists. And those creative types need managers that allow them to express themselves rather than attempt to stifle their natural gifts for the sake of workrate. Beyond that, every player brings different natural gifts that suit different styles of football. Sam-style requires a lot more strength and physical power than tiki-taka for example, and a player without those attributes will be wasted in that setup.