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Is Messi the greatest player ever?

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Warm Butter said:
Dayum baby! I meant champions league but both are come to think of it.

The point of the matter is as much as you can say not winning the world cup puts Messi in Pele and Maradonnas shadow you could just as much argue vice versa that
neither won the European cup?
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I didn't say that. I've actually said and believe that i've never understood the theory and argument that you need a World Cup medal to cement your best ever title.

For me Messi is in Maradona's shadow, simply because Maradona, for me is the greatest player i've ever seen. What Maradona did with the ball at his feet is something i've not seen before or since.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
He scored that goal in Escape for Victory, which probably was counted amongst the 400 other goals in non-competitive matches that went into his 1,000+ tally.
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Sour much? Jesus Marimba, it's just a matter of opinion. And even if he did score 400 goals in "non-competitive" matfhes, (whatever the hell that means), he still scored more than 600 in games that counted. Led Brazil to its first three World Cup titles.
But you know what, Steve? It's really about apples and oranges when it comes to football's various eras. Same when it comes to similar discussions in other sports. You can never convince a different opinion to change.
 

canuckblue said:
Sour much? Jesus Marimba, it's just a matter of opinion. And even if he did score 400 goals in "non-competitive" matfhes, (whatever the hell that means), he still scored more than 600 in games that counted. Led Brazil to its first three World Cup titles.
But you know what, Steve? It's really about apples and oranges when it comes to football's various eras. Same when it comes to similar discussions in other sports. You can never convince a different opinion to change.
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Yep.

What I always find interesting is that anything pre-Pele is generally disregarded due to it's era, but he and players from the 60's never are. I assume this is because most of the people that watched players like Tom Finney and Stanley Matthews and Dixie Dean are much older and there was significantly less media coverage.

I wonder if Pele's era hit escape velocity though and will always be remembered as some of the greats, or if they'll fade away with Maradona and Cruyff taking those reigns while Messi and Zidane become the new Maradona.

I just find it neat hearing peoples opinions that actually watched these players, as they're little more than myth to me.
 
canuckblue said:
Sour much? Jesus Marimba, it's just a matter of opinion. And even if he did score 400 goals in "non-competitive" matfhes, (whatever the hell that means), he still scored more than 600 in games that counted. Led Brazil to its first three World Cup titles.
But you know what, Steve? It's really about apples and oranges when it comes to football's various eras. Same when it comes to similar discussions in other sports. You can never convince a different opinion to change.
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Kinda does though doesn't it? I mean Gerd Muller was also supposed to have scored over 1,000 goals, yet only 600 or so of those were in proper matches rather than friendlies. The whole 1,000 goals thing is often used in the same way Bradman's 99.99 average or Eddy Mercx winning nearly 50% of every race he entered.

It's used to suggest that he was so far ahead not just of his peers at the time, but of those of any era. Take out all of those goals in friendlies and exhibitions though and his record is no better than that of Eusebio, who also scored 600+ goals for Benfica.

As you say though, it is about apples and oranges, and notable that no defender ever gets a mention in these discussions, even though someone like Maldini probably warrants a mention.

ps, who's Steve? :lol:
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Kinda does though doesn't it? I mean Gerd Muller was also supposed to have scored over 1,000 goals, yet only 600 or so of those were in proper matches rather than friendlies. The whole 1,000 goals thing is often used in the same way Bradman's 99.99 average or Eddy Mercx winning nearly 50% of every race he entered.

It's used to suggest that he was so far ahead not just of his peers at the time, but of those of any era. Take out all of those goals in friendlies and exhibitions though and his record is no better than that of Eusebio, who also scored 600+ goals for Benfica.

As you say though, it is about apples and oranges, and notable that no defender ever gets a mention in these discussions, even though someone like Maldini probably warrants a mention.

ps, who's Steve? lol
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My bad. Thought you were Steve Wigan for some bizarre reason. It's too early in the morning over here. :blush:
 
Never understood the World Cup medal as the benchmark when discussing the greatest. Likewise i've never understood the amount of goals a players scores as another benchmark.

Pele, who will always be mentioned in this category, says Bobby Moore was the greatest player he ever played against. I'm sure we can all appreciate a player like Bobby Moore. Before my time but im stunned his name has been listed anywhere.
 

Jamo Martinez said:
I agrree with you but I think I know where Nev's coming from.

Cantona is probably seen as the catalyst for Utd going on to their greatest period in history. I imagine most Utd fans who lived through the pre Ferguson lean years will feel the same as Nev.
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This exactly

Never thought we would ever win the league again until we got Eric from the sheepshagers

That apart he was a fantastic player one of the best I have ever seen
 

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