Is Sam that bad?

[Eggs]

Is that the extent of our ambitions, though, to not go down? If it is, fine, Sam is the man for us. He will get us safe mid-table finishes year after year. We will bomb out of the cups any time we face a "big" club and never trouble the top of the table. If we retain Allardyce then all that will demonstrate is a lack of ambition for this formerly great club from the board and the further West Ham-ification of Everton.

..it more represents the mess we were in compared to where we are now. At the time of his appointment I think survival was the ambition. We look increasingly like achieving that, the big question is whether he can sort out this squad and take us to the next level.

I wonder if Moshiri would welcome a season of stability after the Koeman debacle allowing things to develop off the pitch.

 

[windymiller]

It doesn't matter what you want it what you can get

Some blues need a reality check, we are not attracting a top manager and honestly don't see who we get in that would improve on Sam, lets remember he's only been here a short space of time and is working with a squad low on confidence, slowly he's turning that around

I can only imagine that you are related to Allardyce as your rose-tinted view of our results, performances and ambitions are completely divorced from reality. Allardyce is a 10th place (plus or minus two places) manager at best, our average league placing over the past 10 years is better than that, ipso facto Allardyce is not good enough even with our modest recent history. You point to the Walcott signing as a sign of progress, which I agree with, but neglect to mention Mangala, who is an appalling player, and Tosun, who Allardyce refuses to play after spunking £27 m on him. If that is our future then I despair. All Allardyce will manage is our steady decline.

 

[EFC78]

No where near as bad as some make out. He's come in and turned round a side that was struggling massively and got us beating the sides around and below us at home, and the only game we have lost that we would have expected to do better in was Bournemouth away which we lost last season too.

Some of our fans just can't give credit where it's due because he's not a fashionable name and they like to imagine the situation where they want us to be (comfortably best of the rest, challenging the top 6) rather than the reality. They try and make out like wins against Palace are dead certs so he doesn't deserve credit, when we haven't beaten them at Goodison since they came back up. The reality is that our team went backwards this season thanks to terrible management from Ronald Koeman and Allardyce is doing his best to work with the imbalanced side he inherited. He's brought in Walcott who looks to be a quality addition and I think we should now be able to challenge for 7th.

 

[TonyS]

I can only imagine that you are related to Allardyce as your rose-tinted view of our results, performances and ambitions are completely divorced from reality. Allardyce is a 10th place (plus or minus two places) manager at best, our average league placing over the past 10 years is better than that, ipso facto Allardyce is not good enough even with our modest recent history. You point to the Walcott signing as a sign of progress, which I agree with, but neglect to mention Mangala, who is an appalling player, and Tosun, who Allardyce refuses to play after spunking £27 m on him. If that is our future then I despair. All Allardyce will manage is our steady decline.

He's never had a job as big as this so to use his league positions at the likes of west ham/palace/sunderland/bolton doesn't hold up

Give him another season to build HIS team and maybe just maybe he could shock us and lead us to a cup success, something thats eluded us for over two decades

Surely chopping and changing managers leaves us in a poor position, I see us going into Villa/Sunderland territory if we carry on

 

[Woolly Blue]

After the West Ham game, we were sat in 13th place, with 15 points.

Arguably he had some influence over the West Ham result, but, ignoring that, if you judge him by what's happened since, rather than the/your perception of what's happened, you'll see we've got 19 points from the games he's been in charge of.

That puts us seventh in an imaginary form league since he formally took over from Unsworth. The only teams to have got more points than we have under Allardyce are :-

• City
• Spurs
• Liverpool
• Man United
• Chelsea and
• West Ham

Swansea and Palace are just behind us.
Given the car crash start to the season under Koeman and Unsworth, that's actually a pretty decent record.

Now, I know that doesn't fit some peoples agendas, and I know facts are difficult for some folk to deal with, and I'm not a fan of Allardyce and I don't like the way we went to Arsenal, lay down and let them walk over us, but, if you look at the situation dispassionately, that's the truth.

If the team continues to perform as it has in the 13 games he's been in charge of, then we'll likely finish seventh or eighth. There would be absolutely no point in sacking him ( or agreeing something by mutual consent ) unless we have someone lined up who really can push us on to the top six.

 

[windymiller]

..it more represents the mess we were in compared to where we are now. At the time of his appointment I think survival was the ambition. We look increasingly like achieving that, the big question is whether he can sort out this squad and take us to the next level.

I wonder if Moshiri would welcome a season of stability after the Koeman debacle allowing things to develop off the pitch.

Moshiri might as I suspect he is more interested in real estate than football. I am not convinced that we will see stability under Allardyce. One thing is for sure, if he stays Goodison will become more toxic. I have never heard booing of an Everton player coming on at GP when we are comfortably winning and, in my opinion, it is symptomatic of dissatisfaction across the board and a disassociation between the match going fans and the club. Allardyce is not the nucleus of this problem but is a big part of it. Just look at the comments in this thread.

 

[BigBlueConk]

After the West Ham game, we were sat in 13th place, with 15 points.

Arguably he had some influence over the West Ham result, but, ignoring that, if you judge him by what's happened since, rather than the/your perception of what's happened, you'll see we've got 19 points from the games he's been in charge of.

That puts us seventh in an imaginary form league since he formally took over from Unsworth. The only teams to have got more points than we have under Allardyce are :-

• City
• Spurs
• Liverpool
• Man United
• Chelsea and
• West Ham

Swansea and Palace are just behind us.
Given the car crash start to the season under Koeman and Unsworth, that's actually a pretty decent record.

Now, I know that doesn't fit some peoples agendas, and I know facts are difficult for some folk to deal with, and I'm not a fan of Allardyce and I don't like the way we went to Arsenal, lay down and let them walk over us, but, if you look at the situation dispassionately, that's the truth.

If the team continues to perform as it has in the 13 games he's been in charge of, then we'll likely finish seventh or eighth. There would be absolutely no point in sacking him ( or agreeing something by mutual consent ) unless we have someone lined up who really can push us on to the top six.

Sacking him at this stage would be pointless. The points we get will be the points we get.
This shower of defenders can only defend well when nobody actually attacks them..

 

[kiss the crest]

It's hardly his fault keane/klassen/morgan/tosan cost the club 100m+ is it mate?

This isn't his squad, he's using an utter mess created by walsh and koeman and imo he's doing quite well getting a tune out of them

Do you go the game? If so did you cheer when we had a shot in the 37th minute against West Brom, because I did.

If that is a tune then change the record

 

[TonyS]

No where near as bad as some make out. He's come in and turned round a side that was struggling massively and got us beating the sides around and below us at home, and the only game we have lost that we would have expected to do better in was Bournemouth away which we lost last season too.

Some of our fans just can't give credit where it's due because he's not a fashionable name and they like to imagine the situation where they want us to be (comfortably best of the rest, challenging the top 6) rather than the reality. They try and make out like wins against Palace are dead certs so he doesn't deserve credit, when we haven't beaten them at Goodison since they came back up. The reality is that our team went backwards this season thanks to terrible management from Ronald Koeman and Allardyce is doing his best to work with the imbalanced side he inherited. He's brought in Walcott who looks to be a quality addition and I think we should now be able to challenge for 7th.

For me thats the long and short of it

There all after the current flavor of the month or the next fancy dan from abroad

 

[EFC78]

I can only imagine that you are related to Allardyce as your rose-tinted view of our results, performances and ambitions are completely divorced from reality. Allardyce is a 10th place (plus or minus two places) manager at best, our average league placing over the past 10 years is better than that, ipso facto Allardyce is not good enough even with our modest recent history. You point to the Walcott signing as a sign of progress, which I agree with, but neglect to mention Mangala, who is an appalling player, and Tosun, who Allardyce refuses to play after spunking £27 m on him. If that is our future then I despair. All Allardyce will manage is our steady decline.

Our steady decline has already started and did so once Moyes went. In the past 4 seasons we have finished 5th, 11th, 11th, 7th giving an average of 8.5. In the 4 seasons before that we came 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th with an average placing of 7th.

 

[TonyS]

Do you go the game? If so did you cheer when we had a shot in the 37th minute against West Brom, because I did.

If that is a tune then change the record

Yes I do and yes I get your point about poor performances, strange how we ignore any good results with "it was lucky" though

he's taken over a side in downfall, low in confidence and on there 3 manager in 12 months, I think the fact we are 2 points off 7th deserves some respect for the job he's doing

 

[windymiller]

He's never had a job as big as this so to use his league positions at the likes of west ham/palace/sunderland/bolton doesn't hold up

Give him another season to build HIS team and maybe just maybe he could shock us and lead us to a cup success, something thats eluded us for over two decades

Surely chopping and changing managers leaves us in a poor position, I see us going into Villa/Sunderland territory if we carry on

His team includes Mangala, Martina, a Turkish forward earning huge amounts who doesn't play and 8 defensive players against Arsenal (where we still get battered). His finishes at West Ham are directly comparable to his time with us and are what we are likely to see in the future. Safe, but no danger of anything more.
You say he has never managed a team of this size but have you never considered why that is?

 

[windymiller]

Our steady decline has already started and did so once Moyes went. In the past 4 seasons we have finished 5th, 11th, 11th, 7th giving an average of 8.5. In the 4 seasons before that we came 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th with an average placing of 7th.

That is true, and my view is we should look to arrest and reverse that decline rather than accept it as our lot and settle for mediocrity. Allardyce represents surrender, not progress.

 

[TonyS]

His team includes Mangala, Martina, a Turkish forward earning huge amounts who doesn't play and 8 defensive players against Arsenal (where we still get battered). His finishes at West Ham are directly comparable to his time with us and are what we are likely to see in the future. Safe, but no danger of anything more.
You say he has never managed a team of this size but have you never considered why that is?

He's never had the funds that he will have here, im excited to see what he can do with some serious backing, he's a very clever manager and knows how to get the best out of his players, like i said before lots of the squad are full of praise for the man

 

[TonyS]

That is true, and my view is we should look to arrest and reverse that decline rather than accept it as our lot and settle for mediocrity. Allardyce represents surrender, not progress.

Interested to know what you think the club should do

*awaits "sign Pep or Jose"