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Is This the Worst Period in Our History

No, Chris, respectfully.

In order of gravitas: any and all trophies we can win. It's sadly not the 80s anymore, we're not a powerhouse (and new owners likely won't change this), and we genuinely can't pick and choose - I want to see us win a trophy in my lifetime. Ideally all the trophies several times, in my lifetime, but that's not that realistic right now :lol:

And the charity shield and league cup are both nothingburgers of trophies compared to playing in Europe, but opinions and that isn't it?
We have different opinions. I used to value European football higher. Once it became leagues with safety nets for the top teams, and allowed runners up to be jn a league called champions, with razzmatazz and anthems to generate excitement, histeria maybe, I stopped looking. They simply failed to sell it to me. I was never convinced that the emperor had nice new clothes.

Honest - if we qualified for the new European distraction participation certificate trophy I wouldn't even look at our results. I'd rather we declined - which I think would show more about our club integrity than entering.
 
We have different opinions. I used to value European football higher. Once it became leagues with safety nets for the top teams, and allowed runners up to be jn a league called champions, with razzmatazz and anthems to generate excitement, histeria maybe, I stopped looking. They simply failed to sell it to me. I was never convinced that the emperor had nice new clothes.

Honest - if we qualified for the new European distraction participation certificate trophy I wouldn't even look at our results. I'd rather we declined - which I think would show more about our club integrity than entering.
Good for you, but my first paragraph stands - we cannot pick and choose for the foreseeable.

I (and likely many others who aren't old) want to see us win a pot or 10, all of them included. Do you think Sevilla are annoyed at only winning the smaller Eurotrophy every other year? Or did Roma and WHam not celebrate because it's a "small time trophy"? You play/watch football to win things, this is a thing to win. Integrity in sport has never been there anyway, "club integrity" in... denying entry to a competition...?... is just nonsense.

This but in Royal Blue please, every year, for any trophy/cup.
 
Apart from few yo-yo periods at the start the league placings under Moyes were solid, and he largely got good value in the transfer market so overall he was a success. But that comment in bold, just focusing on Moyes, in 43 games at the "big 4" grounds (Old Trafford, Anfield, Stamford Bridge and Highbury/Emirates) he didn't win a game. Since leaving the club he has since extended that run to 69 games with his other teams.


I like him as a bloke, but he had a negativity about him (good video on this from Rio below) that meant he was safety first, and he focused too much on the opposition in the build up to games to the point his own team suffered.



The style of play was never expansive which held him back I feel when he went to OT (the signing of Fellaini a big mistake as that signalled a direct style that United were not accustomed to).


Fulham's Dan Burn said he had "never headed that many balls since the Conference" after defending 81 Manchester United crosses.

Burn, 21, made 22 clearances in the 2-2 draw at Old Trafford on Sunday.

The number of crosses set a new Premier League record.

The 6ft 7in defender, who played 10 times in the Conference for Darlington in 2011, added: "We knew that was going to happen and I was happy for them to play like that." Fulham boss Rene Meulensteen had described United's style as "straightforward". Despite breaking the crosses record that had stood since 2006, only 18 found a player in red. Darren Bent's injury-time header secured Fulham's first point in four matches but United manager David Moyes defended his side's tactics, stating playing with width was "in United's genes".


As well as the style of play issue, during their brief tenure under him United lost to teams at home they had not lost to in decades. So your comment about few notable away wins, that was never likely under Moyes during his 11 years at the club.

The Joe Royle era was the best since I started watching (first game at Goodison being '91), and the best game of course was Wembley vs United, such a joyous day when Rideout scored the winner. That team had bottle, unlike the Moyes era. Since '91 the best style of play has definitely been under Martinez (cannot think of any other manager who really played an attractive style in those years, perhaps Carlo at times when James played).

The managerial appointments largely haven't lended itself to the type of football you would like to see. Can take not winning, but at least have a go. You watch the first Howard era (before my time) and that team was electrifying. Watched a replay of the game when Ratters scored at Anfield and that team was in constant attack mode. Been a far cry from that since I've been watching.

Wow never seen that Rio clip before. So, even when he had guns at the gunfight, he still acted like he only had knives!

And this is why we shouldn’t go back, if we truly want to break out of the malaise of the last 30y.

Edit: btw the bit where Jenas asks him about did they follow his instructions, even though they knew they wouldn’t work… remind you of anyone?
 
Good for you, but my first paragraph stands - we cannot pick and choose for the foreseeable.

I (and likely many others who aren't old) want to see us win a pot or 10, all of them included. Do you think Sevilla are annoyed at only winning the smaller Eurotrophy every other year? Or did Roma and WHam not celebrate because it's a "small time trophy"? You play/watch football to win things, this is a thing to win. Integrity in sport has never been there anyway, "club integrity" in... denying entry to a competition...?... is just nonsense.

This but in Royal Blue please, every year, for any trophy/cup.

Couldn't tell you who won them. Was only aware W Ham won the participation certificate pot because of the Moyes connection and chat on here. Concurrently their squad was stretched and theg had a poor season, keeping a good team from challenging the top 5, as designed.

I want us to win stuff - I want to win the important stuff, not settle for lower tier stuff.

If we got into the champions league as champions I'd be delighted and follow it as we played other champions (I'd skip the games against runners up). If we entered as runners up - give it a miss.

I know it will never go back to how it was, but that doesn't mean I have ever start liking or accepting enshitification. 🙂
 
Couldn't tell you who won them. Was only aware W Ham won the participation certificate pot because of the Moyes connection and chat on here. Concurrently their squad was stretched and theg had a poor season, keeping a good team from challenging the top 5, as designed.

I want us to win stuff - I want to win the important stuff, not settle for lower tier stuff.

If we got into the champions league as champions I'd be delighted and follow it as we played other champions (I'd skip the games against runners up). If we entered as runners up - give it a miss.

I know it will never go back to how it was, but that doesn't mean I have ever start liking or accepting enshitification. 🙂
Great use of the word, first off :lol:

I get that but understand that you're very much a minority from the olden days - trophies get more fans (I know some people on here would also hate it if we have more exposure/fans from abroad for some reason too) and more fans = more better, as the saying goes; actual good times, not the Kenwright ones! :lol: And the fact you don't follow those tournaments is down to you - stadiums are always full for them, oddly enough.

He had Evertonised WHam at the time - "best of the rest" mentality, but the top 4 is no longer a 4 and it suits him right down to the ground - they were 7th and 9th the seasons before and after their Conference win and also he absolutely failed to implement any future strategy - he played some absolute nomarks from Romania and still played largely a first team squad, with no rotation options, killing them further in the league. He kind of did the same for us at first - only playing the youngsters in some random times or when we've already gotten injured players. Remember vaguely that Coleman played RB only because of injuries, along with a few others, when Benfica ate us alive. Martinez also did the same thing - running the same 1st team all the time, it never works out. You have to switch the main players, especially against lower-tier opposition.

We've not won anything in 30 (and counting) years mate, I'd like us to win a few before being indifferent about any of them.
 

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