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James McCarthy

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Walken said:
the only thing you value is a grafter it seems, pouring water on gerry's efforts of late, Gibson is a better 'footballer' than Barry, Macarthy and possibly Besic who also has very good technique, Gibson is better with the football, and as they both play center mid, I would hope the manager does compare them, and weighs up the different values they bring, and possible partnerships they could make
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Think you've got me confused with someone else here mate. Unless you can use an example? I love Deulofeu and can't remember a single time I have condemned his maverick style.

It's quite clear we play a "ball winner" and a "ball player" in central midfield. Would I rely on a partnership of Barry and Gibson to constantly retrieve the ball for us? God no.

Barry is a very good player, and Gibson also ON the ball, however neither compete with McCarthy off the ball. Besic has the attributes and should be putting McCarthy under pressure. Both are energetic, tactically sound defensive midfielders. Gibson is certainly not the former.
 
sageyefc said:
Winning the ball back two or three times isn't enough, he needs more to his game, in possession he's pure meh
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But so is Matic. He scored a screamer against us. McCarthy scored a goal against Utd that only matic could dream of. Both flukes imo, they are primarily holding midfield players and anything more than that they produce offensively is a bonus
 
mkrudden said:
But so is Matic. He scored a screamer against us. McCarthy scored a goal against Utd that only matic could dream of. Both flukes imo, they are primarily holding midfield players and anything more than that they produce offensively is a bonus
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Not true, mativ has one of the best range of passing for that role in the prem and has a terrific shot on him, was certainly no fluke
 
mkrudden said:
Think you've got me confused with someone else here mate. Unless you can use an example? I love Deulofeu and can't remember a single time I have condemned his maverick style.

It's quite clear we play a "ball winner" and a "ball player" in central midfield. Would I reply on a partnership of Barry for Gibson to constantly retrieve the ball for us? God no.

Barry is a very good player, and Gibson also ON the ball, however neither compete with McCarthy off the ball. Besic has the attributes and should be putting McCarthy under pressure. Both are energetic, tactically sound defensive midfielders. Gibson is certainly not the former.
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I haven't been slating Macarthy for the record, but I certainly don't see the blend of barry and him as a ball player and ball winner, I don't really rate barry's passing, his forward balls are usually too straight to offer the runner much, and his is frighteningly one footed for a man who has played professional football for so long, they play pretty much the same role except james has far more energy, and when we are essentially playing four center backs that can leave us looking a bit flat, and the idea of having them both there at times somewhat redundant as there isn't two flying full backs to cover. Throw in naismith and rom in the same side and ball retention becomes an issue, and the pressure on ross or gerry to create can make us easy to mark. I'm not saying it can't work, or that even it hasn't worked at times this season, but we could certainly use someone in that area to control the tempo far better, Gibson can do that, Barkley will at some point do that, maybe cleverly will, but for me ultimately the manager should be more flexible with his favoured pairing, he might even get more out of them if he is
 
sageyefc said:
Not true, mativ has one of the best range of passing for that role in the prem and has a terrific shot on him, was certainly no fluke
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And quite clearly McCarthy is one of the most energetic and best intercepting midfielders in the league. I'm not saying they are a carbon copy of each other, I'm saying Matic is heralded as a holding midfielder because he is judged as such. McCarthy is criticised for not being something he clearly isn't.
 

sageyefc said:
But we need more than just a dog with a bone type, he can be really effective when we need someone snapping in at players to win it back but in the games when thats not really a priority, like against lesser teams who sit back, like the majority of matches we're in hes a bit of a nothing player, at least barry can pass it about, you've compared him to matic there, matic has a great range of passing and gets shots off, McCarthy needs to add that to his game
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But what about the home game versus Man United last season, he was both winning the ball back and creating so he has got it in his locker to do it. However with a very inexperienced Browning at RB and Deulofeu who can be variable in tracking back the last couple of games haven't really been the time to try it imo.
 
LinekersLegs said:
But what about the home game versus Man United last season, he was both winning the ball back and creating so he has got it in his locker to do it. However with a very inexperienced Browning at RB and Deulofeu who can be variable in tracking back the last couple of games haven't really been the time to try it imo.
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That is a frustrating thing though, once in a blue moon he'll have a game like that Utd one were he'll charge forward with the ball and look to have a bit o drive but them games are few and far between
 
Walken said:
I haven't been slating Macarthy for the record, but I certainly don't see the blend of barry and him as a ball player and ball winner, I don't really rate barry's passing, his forward balls are usually too straight to offer the runner much, and his is frighteningly one footed for a man who has played professional football for so long, they play pretty much the same role except james has far more energy, and when we are essentially playing four center backs that can leave us looking a bit flat, and the idea of having them both there at times somewhat redundant as there isn't two flying full backs to cover. Throw in naismith and rom in the same side and ball retention becomes an issue, and the pressure on ross or gerry to create can make us easy to mark. I'm not saying it can't work, or that even it hasn't worked at times this season, but we could certainly use someone in that area to control the tempo far better, Gibson can do that, Barkley will at some point do that, maybe cleverly will, but for me ultimately the manager should be more flexible with his favoured pairing, he might even get more out of them if he is
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For starters mate you haven't forwarded anything concrete to suggest I am not a fan of Deulofeu, so I guess you're abandoning that point.

I'm not saying Gibson doesn't bring quality, I'm merely saying that McCarthys exuberance without the ball is underrated, and that Gibson is for the majority of games in competition with Barry for a place. Both Barry and Gibson are excellent on the ball, in different ways, and they need an energetic midfielder alongside them to get them the ball quickly and more often. Playing them together would be a disaster
 

LinekersLegs said:
As long as the creatively is coming from somewhere I don't really mind tbh if he largely concentrates on winning the ball back and handing it off to someone else.
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But it needs to be so much better at times, for the days that Ross isn't on it, we can look so devoid of ideas in the center like we did yesterday until gibbo come on
 
sageyefc said:
But it needs to be so much better at times, for the days that Ross isn't on it, we can look so devoid of ideas in the center like we did yesterday until gibbo come on
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That makes no sense mate.
If Barkley isn't at it then McCarthy should be criticised for not being something he isn't?
And don't forget Gibson came on yesterday against a tired and retreated WBA in the second half.
 
mkrudden said:
That makes no sense mate.
If Barkley isn't at it then McCarthy should be criticised for not being something he isn't?
And don't forget Gibson came on yesterday against a tired and retreated WBA in the second half.
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At the very least you should expect you're cms to be able to make a 10 yard pass forward, McCarthy barely can, there's times when the most obvious pass is one forward yet he pass back for no reason
 
sageyefc said:
But it needs to be so much better at times, for the days that Ross isn't on it, we can look so devoid of ideas in the center like we did yesterday until gibbo come on
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But isn't that why we have a squad, it wasn't working yesterday despite Deulofeu's best efforts so Martinez tweeaked it and we got the result. If Coleman had been fit he might have been able to provide that spark himself.

Think one of the reasons why Martinez was so keen to sign Cleverley was that he hoped he could help Ross with the more creative midfiielder demands.
 
sageyefc said:
At the very least you should expect you're cms to be able to make a 10 yard pass forward, McCarthy barely can, there's times when the most obvious pass is one forward yet he pass back for no reason
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Didn't he give the ball into Lukakus feet for the Kone goal?

All about opinions mate as I repeatedly say, but I think you're being very harsh on McCarthy.
 

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