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James McCarthy

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I can't believe that one tackle that may or may not have merited a yellow card has received so much attention. Arguable, he got the ball. These tackles happen all the time. Get over it! I don't have to name them but West Ham have got their fare share. Get off your pedastal. Maybe a few of the Hammers fans are getting a little dizzy at their high position in the league
 
We're nice, not nasty :

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Groucho said:
I don't remember such a fuss being made when Anichebe had his leg broken.

But this is football, tackles and injuries happen. Occupational hazard for all of them.
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Nolan and that other RS Taylor were bragging in the papers bfore that game about how they were going to "do" our boys and they didn't mean merely winning the game either!
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
All joking aside, it's a real shame for the lad as he's been tremendous so far this season.

I don't agree that is was a malicious challenge from McCarthy though, it was just the type of competitive ball winning challenge that he puts in. The injury to Payet was just bad luck imo.
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I don't think there was any malicious intent, or that he set out to injure the player. I do believe that it was a reckless challenge that he made out of frustration, due to perhaps that his partner Barry was outshining him at the moment. Reckless, but not intentional. He comes off as one of those players that makes those sort of challenges every once in awhile, but I don't believe he ever does them with intent to injure
 

whufaninpeace said:
West Ham fan here in actual peace (unlike the last one who sort of came on here and immediately attacked you),

My perspective of the tackle: In my opinion, the tackle was a red card offense. I know some will disagree, but that's just my opinion. I would have actually had no problem with the original tackle, due to the fact that he did get a bit of the ball before. No complaints from me there. It was the scissor motion after that, in my opinion, was born of frustration, and made it a poor challenge. I believe any tackle with a scissor motion should be retroactively banned, from this point forward. I've been on the end of one of these, and it isn't pretty. You won't hear any of this "thug" or "hitman" complaints about McCarthy, as it's just one of those things that happen in the game. Players make bad challenges all the time, and unfortunately players get injured.

I think the overreaction from some of our fans is ridiculous. Am I unhappy with our best player being out for 3 months? Hell yeah I am! The good news is we have strength in depth and I do believe we will recover from this. Lanzini will fill the void left by Payet, and we have players like Antonio, Moses, Song, Obiang, Zarate etc to fill the void left in our midfield. You guys are one of our rivals this season for the top 7-10 places in the league, and it'll be an interesting season for sure.

I think the reason a lot of our fans are upset is because we all like watching a player of Payet's ability. It also doesn't help that you guys are a bit of a bogey team and we always seem to play poorly against you lot and have injuries as well (not from bad challenges, just injuries in general. The Valencia injury was the result of an unfortunate landing from a perfectly fair challenge, for example).

Sorry for the lengthy post, good luck for the rest of the season (except I hope you finish below us, of course ;)).
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Well said. Good to see you actually come on and write a well written and balanced post rather than do what the last West Ham fan did where he claimed to "come in peace" and then aimed petty jibes in a few of his posts. Don't see the point in that myself.

A lot of what you've said is right. The scissor action is what's made it dangerous but I also think that players have less control over their legs when going in for a heavy tackle than is made out by the modern day fan and pundit. If you go in to a tackle hard, you aren't always able to control where your legs end up. I wouldn't have much of a problem with them banning these scissor tackles but it just seems like it would take away even more of the physical side of the game because Dier actually won the ball cleanly and McCarthy got a bit of it too. I don't believe either player set out to injure the opponent either so getting punished seems a bit harsh.

Injuries are part of the game, and that's something a lot of your fans have overlooked on this occasion. I think their frustration at losing such a key player has clouded their judgement on this one.
 
whufaninpeace said:
West Ham fan here in actual peace (unlike the last one who sort of came on here and immediately attacked you),

My perspective of the tackle: In my opinion, the tackle was a red card offense. I know some will disagree, but that's just my opinion. I would have actually had no problem with the original tackle, due to the fact that he did get a bit of the ball before. No complaints from me there. It was the scissor motion after that, in my opinion, was born of frustration, and made it a poor challenge. I believe any tackle with a scissor motion should be retroactively banned, from this point forward. I've been on the end of one of these, and it isn't pretty. You won't hear any of this "thug" or "hitman" complaints about McCarthy, as it's just one of those things that happen in the game. Players make bad challenges all the time, and unfortunately players get injured.

I think the overreaction from some of our fans is ridiculous. Am I unhappy with our best player being out for 3 months? Hell yeah I am! The good news is we have strength in depth and I do believe we will recover from this. Lanzini will fill the void left by Payet, and we have players like Antonio, Moses, Song, Obiang, Zarate etc to fill the void left in our midfield. You guys are one of our rivals this season for the top 7-10 places in the league, and it'll be an interesting season for sure.

I think the reason a lot of our fans are upset is because we all like watching a player of Payet's ability. It also doesn't help that you guys are a bit of a bogey team and we always seem to play poorly against you lot and have injuries as well (not from bad challenges, just injuries in general. The Valencia injury was the result of an unfortunate landing from a perfectly fair challenge, for example).

Sorry for the lengthy post, good luck for the rest of the season (except I hope you finish below us, of course ;)).
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The scissor tackle is problematic, however it is very hard to tackle on occasions without scissoring as a player would hurt themselves.

The issue that has caused the injury is the distance between the ball and the player dribbling it. If he keeps the ball closer to his body he probably doesn't get injured in the same way.

Ultimately if you allow any kind of slide tackle you are running the risk of injury. It's a tough break for West Ham. We had exactly the same with Dier's tackle on Cleverley. I wouldn't want to lose that from our game though.

Our captain Phil Jagielka was injured earlier on with a standing upright late block tackle from Oxlade Chamberlain. Do we ban block tackles too? John Stones got injured last year with ankle ligaments because when he went to head a ball he was nudged and fell badly on his ankle. Do we ban challenging for headers?

Unfortunately we have to accept that certain actions can cause secondary accidental damage. Tp start calling for things to be banned in the end would greatly limit our game and make it close to a none contact sport. It would reduce defending to positioning and rely on mistakes of the attackers.

It's a tough break for West Ham. Payet has been magnificent so far and looks a real player. He'll come back though and as you've said you will learn more about your squad in the interim.
 
whufaninpeace said:
West Ham fan here in actual peace (unlike the last one who sort of came on here and immediately attacked you),

My perspective of the tackle: In my opinion, the tackle was a red card offense. I know some will disagree, but that's just my opinion. I would have actually had no problem with the original tackle, due to the fact that he did get a bit of the ball before. No complaints from me there. It was the scissor motion after that, in my opinion, was born of frustration, and made it a poor challenge. I believe any tackle with a scissor motion should be retroactively banned, from this point forward. I've been on the end of one of these, and it isn't pretty. You won't hear any of this "thug" or "hitman" complaints about McCarthy, as it's just one of those things that happen in the game. Players make bad challenges all the time, and unfortunately players get injured.

I think the overreaction from some of our fans is ridiculous. Am I unhappy with our best player being out for 3 months? Hell yeah I am! The good news is we have strength in depth and I do believe we will recover from this. Lanzini will fill the void left by Payet, and we have players like Antonio, Moses, Song, Obiang, Zarate etc to fill the void left in our midfield. You guys are one of our rivals this season for the top 7-10 places in the league, and it'll be an interesting season for sure.

I think the reason a lot of our fans are upset is because we all like watching a player of Payet's ability. It also doesn't help that you guys are a bit of a bogey team and we always seem to play poorly against you lot and have injuries as well (not from bad challenges, just injuries in general. The Valencia injury was the result of an unfortunate landing from a perfectly fair challenge, for example).

Sorry for the lengthy post, good luck for the rest of the season (except I hope you finish below us, of course ;)).
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good post, was wondering if anything has been said about your Physio Team/Management thinking he could run it off?
He had it assessed then played on for 15mins or so until half time, had it assessed properly at half time then went off after 5 mins of the second half. I'm not down playing the fact that the damage was done in the challenge, but surely 20 mins of action on it after the incident could only have made things worse and prolonged his absence?
It's generally pretty evident when those knee ligaments twang, when Cleverley got clattered in a similar way a few weeks back (not even a foul I may add) there was no suggestion of him carrying on and he was subbed immediately. Yes, Payet's injury possibly could be less severe, but surely when it's something mechanical like ligaments, it's got to be spotted quickly.
 

catcherintherye said:
The scissor tackle is problematic, however it is very hard to tackle on occasions without scissoring as a player would hurt themselves.

The issue that has caused the injury is the distance between the ball and the player dribbling it. If he keeps the ball closer to his body he probably doesn't get injured in the same way.

Ultimately if you allow any kind of slide tackle you are running the risk of injury. It's a tough break for West Ham. We had exactly the same with Dier's tackle on Cleverley. I wouldn't want to lose that from our game though.

Our captain Phil Jagielka was injured earlier on with a standing upright late block tackle from Oxlade Chamberlain. Do we ban block tackles too? John Stones got injured last year with ankle ligaments because when he went to head a ball he was nudged and fell badly on his ankle. Do we ban challenging for headers?

Unfortunately we have to accept that certain actions can cause secondary accidental damage. Tp start calling for things to be banned in the end would greatly limit our game and make it close to a none contact sport. It would reduce defending to positioning and rely on mistakes of the attackers.

It's a tough break for West Ham. Payet has been magnificent so far and looks a real player. He'll come back though and as you've said you will learn more about your squad in the interim.
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yeah, i can see the arguments about the scissor tackle, especially if both legs end up wrapping around an ankle. it can be executed with one leg getting the ball and the other not touching the opposition's standing leg, so can you really ban it. It's not a thug way of trying to injure someone with these disgusting two footed lunges you see, it's just a technique of tackling. He did get the ball after all, it's an odd one, because i bet many of us grew up being taught to take the ball and the man.
 
My first reaction was how great the tackle was, and then I saw his other leg swing round and I agree that a yellow was the correct course of action. However, consider this Blues, if that had been Kouyate on Barkley, would we have all been shouting at the ref (or in my case Iraqigoals.net), for a straight red? Of course! I can therefore understand why West Ham fans would feel slightly hard done by. Would we have accused him of trying to hurt the player? No, by the first leg getting the ball you can see it was just a clumsy challenge bourne out of frustration, I don't think you can accuse him of attempting to injure the player in any way.
 
I thought it was borderline red. Coming in with a scissors tackle from behind away from home was naughty. I saw that diver called Danny Rose at Spurs doing one on an Everton player and thought that if that had happened at Goodison then he might have gone.
 
It's a yellow card cause of Payets own movement. He shifted his own position in the last possible moment and with this action caused McCarthy to hit him ugly. Ref most likely saw Payet as a responsible party in this and cause of this didnt go for the red. McCarthy was reckless in his action but was going to the ball.
Yellow card. Game continues. STFU.

Good example - like Coloccini case - of the fact how fouls and decisions are open to interpretation.
 

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