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John Stones

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Bluebonic said:
To be honest mate, i couldnt care if he was a mass murderer, he has been a superb defender, and if Stones is to live up to expectations he needs to learn from somebody of that calibre!
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Likes John Terry.
Tolerant of mass murderers.
Can´t spell caliber.

probably one of the worst posts I´ve read on here. Bravo.

On topic, John Stones is still a very good footballer, hopefully when he comes out of this poor stretch of form he will still be with us.
 
Jonte said:
I remain lukewarm about John Stones's ability as a Centre Half.

For me, he is more of a Matt Jackson than a Ratcliffe, Watson or Labone; undoubtedly composed, but lacking that aerial superiority and authority so vital to this lynchpin of roles.

Yes, he's young. Yes, he's still learning his trade. However, great centre-halves - like strikers- are born not made. Positioning under pressure is instinctive and not for the faint hearted when it's all hands to the pump in a crowded penalty area.

In fairness, Moyes bought him as I recall at the tender age of seventeen as a right back. Whether or not it was his intention at the time to turn him into a C.H. is unknown, but if so, why was this when we already had suitable (ready made?) candidates in our own Academy?

I recall watching one such individual on a couple of occasions; Mark Hughes was his name. Okay, you could rightly argue that merely two occasions is insufficient to judge anyone thoroughly enough, but I remain convinced that centre-halves are born to the role: you've either got it, or you ain't! In this relatively short time, I recognised all of the attributes in the incipient, and I was extremely disappointed to learn, like so many others of his peer group at the time, that he had been loaned out and eventually 'off-loaded'. Often, when this question about John's suitability for the role is questioned, young Hughes is brought to mind and I sit and ponder what might have been if only the club had invested the same amount of time and resources on Mark? Regrettably, we'll never know, like so much other potential talent that's slipped the net.

I think we had Mr. Moyes's apparent contempt for the Club's blossoming Academy to thank for that!

Whilst I believe John can still play a part in Everton's recovery, perhaps in his more familiar right back role or even midfield, I sincerely doubt he'll ever make the grade as a CH at this level. If he's still not there after several years of honing, how much time does he need to become the finished article, and is it a luxury we can afford considering the disappointment of recent results?

Perhaps for John Stones it's a bridge too far.
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Can you name one player from our academy (not one we bought from abroad) that we 'overlooked' that has gone on and is now shining for a top side I'm England or abroad?

Most of them, including Hughes who went to Northampton I think, were not and are not good enough. Only the real cream make it. We're seeing fans questioning Stones and Barkley who are some of the league's top young players. Anyone would think Moyes had la Masia and was blocking Iniesta and Busquets making our first team. Not the case. Loads of dross got runs in our first team but were rightly moved on.

Martinez has also not used a single academy player (that he didn't buy in himself) in the league apart from Browning.

Stones has great quality but we will not truly know his ability until he plays for a manager who can organise a defence.
 
bicycleheader said:
Likes John Terry.
Tolerant of mass murderers.
Can´t spell caliber.

probably one of the worst posts I´ve read on here. Bravo.

On topic, John Stones is still a very good footballer, hopefully when he comes out of this poor stretch of form he will still be with us.
Click to expand...
Was wondering if that was worth a poll. No nonsense defender/mass murderer or John Stones?
 

Saint Domingo said:
Can you name one player from our academy (not one we bought from abroad) that we 'overlooked' that has gone on and is now shining for a top side I'm England or abroad?

Most of them, including Hughes who went to Northampton I think, were not and are not good enough. Only the real cream make it. We're seeing fans questioning Stones and Barkley who are some of the league's top young players. Anyone would think Moyes had la Masia and was blocking Iniesta and Busquets making our first team. Not the case. Loads of dross got runs in our first team but were rightly moved on.

Martinez has also not used a single academy player (that he didn't buy in himself) in the league apart from Browning.

Stones has great quality but we will not truly know his ability until he plays for a manager who can organise a defence.
Click to expand...

Need to get my thinking cap on their, Saint Domingo, but Victor Anichibe springs to mind (Premiership player with West Brom and Kenyan international dogged by injury).

You make a fair point, but I still wonder how much better our own would have been if they'd also been nurtured and cosseted like John.
Funnily enough, I once learned from a scout that common practice was to employ a mnemonic to gauge a potential player's performance, the letter 'P' standing for pace. Apparently, Mark Lacked this which is why he was overlooked. In light of recent mention of John Terry's name in this thread, I wonder if too much emphasis is placed on this aspect of the game when measuring a player's worth, especially to quote Jamie Carragher: "John Terry's never been fast". And, yes, I too admire John Terry as a central defender who, I'm sure you'll agree, possesses all the attributes I mentioned in my earlier post.

Note to Everton scouts: Adopt a better standard of reference!
 
bicycleheader said:
Likes John Terry.
Tolerant of mass murderers.
Can´t spell caliber.

probably one of the worst posts I´ve read on here. Bravo.

On topic, John Stones is still a very good footballer, hopefully when he comes out of this poor stretch of form he will still be with us.
Click to expand...
When you can spell it yourself, then you can criticise. FYI, he was right. Calibre.

Less of the grammar policing.
 
bicycleheader said:
Likes John Terry.
Tolerant of mass murderers.
Can´t spell caliber.

probably one of the worst posts I´ve read on here. Bravo.

On topic, John Stones is still a very good footballer, hopefully when he comes out of this poor stretch of form he will still be with us.
Click to expand...
I never actually said i liked him lad? I rate him, there is a massive difference, plus, if you are going to play the grammar nazi, at least play it properly! Calibre is the correct spelling unles you are a Yank, in which case it it spelled caliber! I am not a Yank, i am a scouser, apologies for confusing you :)
 
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Saint Domingo said:
Stones has great quality but we will not truly know his ability until he plays for a manager who can organise a defence.
Click to expand...

Sorry to pick on your post again, Saint Domingo, but I forgot to address this last point before pressing 'post...'.

I've no wish to appear antagonistic, but the view held by many of my fellow Evertonians that our poor defensive displays are solely down to Mr. Martinez's apparent lack of credence payed to the art of defending is wearing a bit thin.

Our defenders are professional sportsmen employed, at great cost, for the primary purpose of defending. By definition, each knows - or should know - where he should be in relation to attackers and co-defenders in a variety of scenarios, whether they be dead ball situations, outnumbered and too high up the pitch when the opposition breaks, or simply one-on-one.

Jags and Baines are journeymen pros; Coleman and Stones benefitted from honing their skills under the master of defence, David Moyes.

Okay, Roberto Martinez may require all his players to consider themselves attackers, even the defenders by playing the ball out from the back for instance, or making themselves available to receive a pass. However, this doesn't excuse them from their defensive roles which, frankly, are fundamentals of the game, and if a player can't adapt his role at this level - isn't this what employers term flexibility these days ? - then questions have to be asked as to their suitability. Harsh, perhaps, but as I've just alluded to, aren't we all adapting to the demands of every day life in what ever role we perform; can't our highly skilled Premiership footballers do the same?

Perhaps it might just be the case that some aren't quite good enough to do so.


[/COLOR]
 
Bluebonic said:
I never actually said i liked him lad? I rate him, there is a massive difference, plus, if you are going to play the grammar nazi, at least play it properly! Calibre is the correct spelling unles you are a Yank, in which case it it spelled caliber! I am not a Yank, i am a scouser, apologies for confusing you :)
Click to expand...

He's an American, in Barcelona.

.... wait a minute...

@FCBarça
 

Jonte said:
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]

Sorry to pick on your post again, Saint Domingo, but I forgot to address this last point before pressing 'post...'.

I've no wish to appear antagonistic, but the view held by many of my fellow Evertonians that our poor defensive displays are solely down to Mr. Martinez's apparent lack of credence payed to the art of defending is wearing a bit thin.

Our defenders are professional sportsmen employed, at great cost, for the primary purpose of defending. By definition, each knows - or should know - where he should be in relation to attackers and co-defenders in a variety of scenarios, whether they be dead ball situations, outnumbered and too high up the pitch when the opposition breaks, or simply one-on-one.

Jags and Baines are journeymen pros; Coleman and Stones benefitted from honing their skills under the master of defence, David Moyes.

Okay, Roberto Martinez may require all his players to consider themselves attackers, even the defenders by playing the ball out from the back for instance, or making themselves available to receive a pass. However, this doesn't excuse them from their defensive roles which, frankly, are fundamentals of the game, and if a player can't adapt his role at this level - isn't this what employers term flexibility these days ? - then questions have to be asked as to their suitability. Harsh, perhaps, but as I've just alluded to, aren't we all adapting to the demands of every day life in what ever role we perform; can't our highly skilled Premiership footballers do the same?

Perhaps it might just be the case that some aren't quite good enough to do so.


[/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Baines and Jags journeymen?

2 clubs each.
 

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