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John Stones
- Thread starter GrandOldTeam
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Saw him in the Trafford Centre about a month ago
Read into that what you will
Read into that what you will
I haven't been bothered about him going since about 2 months into last season. We can and will buy a better defender.
Note that I said a better defender, not a better cruyff-turning ball-playing waif but an actual defender.
Note that I said a better defender, not a better cruyff-turning ball-playing waif but an actual defender.
He's an excellent defender when the person managing him actually understands what defending is
This
His most crucial 3 years of development as a defender is totally wasted. Nobody taught him anything except Jagielka.
And yet some people will still tell you till they're blue in the face that Martinez wasn't a bad defensive manager
He ruined John Stones FFS! What more do you need?!?!
What are you basing this on Mikey? He's only really played under Martinez, then in League 2, and the odd International appearance.
Look, I'm not saying he is not a good defender. I am saying we can and will get better for the money we'll receive in exchange. The lad is young and will develop into a great player, I'm confident of that. However, he's come out and put a transfer request and not exactly publicly-retracted that position since. He can go develop into a great player somewhere else, and we can go and sign a ready-made one for what we'll get back in return.
I want to see what the new manager does with him first before I'll agree to cull him
make him captain? Now? You're crazy.
Ok, but that doesn't answer the question I put to you about which manager has you convinced of him being an excellent defender.
He's not a great defender, it isn't the strongest part of his game. We can get someone who is better at defending and who wants to be here long-term. I don't see the point in forcing players who don't want to be here to run out for 90 minutes giving half an effort with an eye towards moves elsewhere. Jib them off straight away and bring people in who want to play for the shirt.
50 Million would be way too much to turn down. He's a good centre half with lots of potential but that's it. He's not very good in the air and gets himself and his team in trouble way too many times. And although his last ditch slide tackles look good, for me it's a clear indicator that he's positioning and reading of the game still needs a lot of work. Media and pundits fall over themselves to fawn over an English ball playing centre half. If he was South American he'd be seen as a liability.
50M would be a ridiculous price for the finished article let alone Stones. Consider Spurs paid around £30M(?) for Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Dier combined and you see sums like £50M don't represent value for money for any centre-half. Capable, well drilled defensive work within a well coordinated team plan is what you need - not a Galactico-esque transfer policy of throwing massive amounts at whoever's in vogue.
50M would be a ridiculous price for the finished article let alone Stones. Consider Spurs paid around £30M(?) for Lloris, Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Dier combined and you see sums like £50M don't represent value for money for any centre-half. Capable, well drilled defensive work within a well coordinated team plan is what you need - not a Galactico-esque transfer policy of throwing massive amounts at whoever's in vogue.
He tackles very well mate and rarely gives away silly fouls, while also looking assured on the ball. These are all skills that good defenders has. With an actual decent defensive minded manager, you'd see them more often and we wouldn't be having this debate
Yeah, he afannies around with the ball a bit to much sometimes, but he still has all the tools and a good manager will get him back on the right path
I certainly would keep him, and I hope we do
It's not a Rom situation where we might be able to get silly money for him, and his agent and family are going out of their way to force a move
He might be up for giving us another year under the new manager. If so, I think we should take it
You've highlighted his strengths in the defensive side of the game but he does also have some big weaknesses. His positioning when we are being countered is continually suspect, he leaves gaps in the defensive line and is slow to recognize the danger and get back in position. His defending of balls in the air, whether from crosses or from long balls has also been a weakness.
Yes, sometimes he does recover well and make up the ground to get the last ditch tackle in but he also puts himself into those situations where he has to put in that last gasp tackle as well. He's good, but he's not perfect and he's not so good that we couldn't bring someone in who is better. He has the potential to be one of the best, but he doesn't want to reach that potential with us. So what's the harm in letting him go for a big profit and wisely reinvesting into someone who wants to be here long-term.
You say it isn't a Rom situation and I say it is worse. Rom has been talking himself up for a move for the last 18 months but Stones actually went ahead and put in the transfer request. There's no debating what that means. I don't know how you have convinced yourself he will give us another year since the lad has not come out and clarified his position since that transfer request was rejected. Even if he did want to stay another year I would have to ask what benefit there is to us in that, is another year going to increase his value which is inflated with the potential premium or is it more likely that he half-arses it and with a wider set of performances to analyse in a team experiencing transition that his value depreciates instead?
What is the point in us giving him a year to iron out his mistakes that will cost us points when it isn't going to lead to us selling him for more, and selling him is inevitable? I honestly can't see a case for it other than some misguided sentimentalism that isn't reciprocated from the player.
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
A manager who was not interested in defence or did not have a clue over the three seasons.
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