John Stones

[rochdaleblue]

Im not sure Stones is going to become what we all want him to be. For the money chelsea offered us last summer, we could get two really good CBs and Im not sure how smart it would be to keep him if another offer in the same vain is on the table. We could have sold him last summer, and gotten Van Dijk with money to spare, a player I atm rate higher than Stones.

I do happen to rate Van Dijk, however the potential for stones is immense. That is why clubs such as Chelsea, barca, city and United are lurking. They wouldn't be doing that for Van Dijk.

 

[Nyhus]

True, but so far Stones had one good season with us, the season every player played well and Moyes' defensive installments hadnt erroded yet. He had one good seasons, and two terribly shitty ones after, and is seemingly getting worse. I agree that Martinez is the reason why, but other young and promising players still had way better seasons than Stone, even though our team was crumbeling around them. Stones was a huge liability these past seasons, and even though big Ron might be able to correct his mistakes, I cannot shake the feeling John just wasnt made to be a CB. His vision and marking is on my mothers level, and he is even worse at winning headers. As a defencive midfielder he might become something special, but sadly, I dont think he will ever be the controlling/commanding CB we all want him to be. Without all the backwards goals Stones was directly responsible for last season, we would surely made the upper part of the table. I dont want us to sell Stones, but I would have felt a lot more safe last season with Van Dijk in our defence. He wins headers and know how to pass the ball without loosing it and creating pressure on his team. The footballing world might not rate his potential as high as Stones, but at this moment, most would agree he is a much better central defender than Stones is.

 

[Angle c]

If "learning" how to perfect his game as a centre back is his aim I would suggest Ronald Koeman would be just as capable of helping, if not more so, than Guardiola.

If he goes to City, learning owt from Guardiola will be well down his list of reasons.

Moolah will be the foremost reason for him going there.

As an aside, I am having difficulty with some of our friends on here being so sympathetic to the whims of John Stones to the detriment of our own club.

IMO the only interest any of us should have in John Stones is how he applies himself in an Everton shirt and what role he can play in our hoped for rennaisance......be that on the pitch playing for us or us screwing the last halfpenny out of any club he wants to move to and re-investing the dough.

To suggest he "doesn't owe us anything" is akin to saying EFC itself didn't give him an "amazing opportunity" when we plucked him from the football backwater that is Barnsley.

I do believe we snatched him from under the noses of.......Bobby's Wigan.

And in fairness to Bobby, it was Bobby and EFC wot converted him to centre back and gave him the chance to shine, mistakes and all, without which his progress would not have been so rapid.

In short.....John Stones owes a heck of a lot to Everton FC.

And if he is too entitled to realise that, at the very least our own fans ought to.

We are toughening up in the boardroom as Saints have just discovered.....we have a manager who will toughen things up in the dressing room.

Time for the fans to toughen up and stop acting like Uriah Heep over Stones.

Tbf, I think 'moolah' would be, at the highest, 3rd on his list, probably behind champions league football, being apart of a title challenge, maybe even playing with a higher calibre of player or learning of off kompany(although I know he is no koeman, still better than jags or rfm)
Also were not talking about stones going on the cheap or for free, he owes us nothing more than the obscene transfer fee we will no doubt receive

 

[Brendan Janus]

Tbf, I think 'moolah' would be, at the highest, 3rd on his list, probably behind champions league football, being apart of a title challenge, maybe even playing with a higher calibre of player or learning of off kompany(although I know he is no koeman, still better than jags or rfm)
Also were not talking about stones going on the cheap or for free, he owes us nothing more than the obscene transfer fee we will no doubt receive

He's still got my Wolf Creek dvd !!

 

[Angle c]

He's still got my Wolf Creek dvd !!

Maybe if you speak to mr mosh, he can negotiate one into the transfer fee for you!

 

[Timak]

True, but so far Stones had one good season with us, the season every player played well and Moyes' defensive installments hadnt erroded yet. He had one good seasons, and two terribly shitty ones after.

Seriously?

He had a bad run of games at the end of last season.

The season before he had amongst the best defensive stats of any U21 player in Europe. There is a reason the likes of Mourinho and Pique rate him so highly.

 

[Khalekan]

Tbf, I think 'moolah' would be, at the highest, 3rd on his list, probably behind champions league football, being apart of a title challenge, maybe even playing with a higher calibre of player or learning of off kompany(although I know he is no koeman, still better than jags or rfm)
Also were not talking about stones going on the cheap or for free, he owes us nothing more than the obscene transfer fee we will no doubt receive

Au contraire, Angie.

He owes his current status to Everton FC for plucking him from obscurity and fast tracking his career in a way that Manchester City never would have.

And how often will he play alongside Sick Note Kompany?

Not very, if Vincent's record over the past couple of years is owt to go by.

Which means he will be "learning" alongside either DiMichelis or Otamendi more often than not.

Neither of whom would lace the boots of Phil Jagielka and neither of whom are any better than Funes Mori IMO.

(come to think of it....it is debatable whether Kompany is any better than Jags)

You sell our club and our own players short.

But at least we agree that he will learn more about playing as a centre back from Ronald Koeman than he would from Pep Guardiola.

 

[orly]

Au contraire, Angie.

He owes his current status to Everton FC for plucking him from obscurity and fast tracking his career in a way that Manchester City never would have.

And how often will he play alongside Sick Note Kompany?

Not very, if Vincent's record over the past couple of years is owt to go by.

Which means he will be "learning" alongside either DiMichelis or Otamendi more often than not.

Neither of whom would lace the boots of Phil Jagielka and neither of whom are any better than Funes Mori IMO.

(come to think of it....it is debatable whether Kompany is any better than Jags)

You sell our club and our own players short.

But at least we agree that he will learn more about playing as a centre back from Ronald Koeman than he would from Pep Guardiola.

Lots of good stuff there Khal but the bit about Kompany and Jagielka is all manner of off the reservation mental. Kompany is one of the best centre halves about and Jagielka couldn't get into an England squad with Chris Smalling and Gary Cahill in it. At no point, I would argue, has he ever even been our best centre back.

 

[Khalekan]

Lots of good stuff there Khal but the bit about Kompany and Jagielka is all manner of off the reservation mental. Kompany is one of the best centre halves about and Jagielka couldn't get into an England squad with Chris Smalling and Gary Cahill in it. At no point, I would argue, has he ever even been our best centre back.

No worries, Orly.

I have never held as high an opinion of Kompany as your good self but that is maybe coloured by the fact his screw up which allowed Coutinho to appear to have presented the Title to the RS sent me into a deep depression which was only lifted when Demba Ba pounced in the most spectacular slip in football history

 

[PeterMeter]

... Jagielka couldn't get into an England squad with Chris Smalling and Gary Cahill in it. At no point, I would argue, has he ever even been our best centre back.

You base your opinion on Roy Hodgson's picking your national side? I can see that working out.
There's a reason we've had a dip of form, both when Distin couldn't be paired with Jags as well as when Stones and Funes Mori had to play a string of games together. He's not the best in the premiership but he's definitely been integral to our defense for last couple of years.

 

[orly]

You base your opinion on Roy Hodgson's picking your national side? I can see that working out.
There's a reason we've had a dip of form, both when Distin couldn't be paired with Jags as well as when Stones and Funes Mori had to play a string of games together. He's not the best in the premiership but he's definitely been integral to our defense for last couple of years.

No not really, but let's be honest if he was the outstanding centre back in the country (or in this argument, better than Kompany) he'd have been picked by any England manager, even the buffoon currently in charge

 

[PeterMeter]

I can agree to that, but this omitting of centrebacks to allow an abundance of midfielders really puts a dent in any remaining confidence I had in Hodgson. Can easily see Jags being one of the top 3 English centrebacks in the league, he hasn't been helped by niggling injuries and the form/organisation of our team.
Kompany needs a run of games to see where he stands, puts himself on the line (like Jags) which means injuries, but definitely a bigger leader and player than Jags. But look at Vidic, that was one dramatic fall off when he lost form after injuries.

 

[Moomin]

True, but so far Stones had one good season with us, the season every player played well and Moyes' defensive installments hadnt erroded yet. He had one good seasons, and two terribly shitty ones after, and is seemingly getting worse. I agree that Martinez is the reason why, but other young and promising players still had way better seasons than Stone, even though our team was crumbeling around them. Stones was a huge liability these past seasons, and even though big Ron might be able to correct his mistakes, I cannot shake the feeling John just wasnt made to be a CB. His vision and marking is on my mothers level, and he is even worse at winning headers. As a defencive midfielder he might become something special, but sadly, I dont think he will ever be the controlling/commanding CB we all want him to be. Without all the backwards goals Stones was directly responsible for last season, we would surely made the upper part of the table. I dont want us to sell Stones, but I would have felt a lot more safe last season with Van Dijk in our defence. He wins headers and know how to pass the ball without loosing it and creating pressure on his team. The footballing world might not rate his potential as high as Stones, but at this moment, most would agree he is a much better central defender than Stones is.

He was superb the season before last.

 

[hetion]

He was superb the season before last.

And superb during the first third/half of this season.

He's boss. So bizarre watching a steady string of people with short memories come in here and talk him down. Unless it's to ward off Pep and Mourinho in which case carry on.

 

[Nyhus]

He was good during the first parts of last season, and better the season before, but neither of those seasons were close to the potential he showed during his first season at Everton. The more Ive seen of him, the less I rate him, and I doubt im the only one. Alot has to do with RM, but you cannot blame ofm for some of Stones ginormous mistakes, the only one to blame is Stones himself. His decision making is not close to good enough for a CB.