John Stones

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Did he tell the The Kippax stand to calm down?

 

[The Cowboy]

Think he's the type of player who needs a very good defender and a leader next to him. Pique learned to defend better playing next to Puyol. David Luiz always looked a lot better next to Thiago Silva and has got better for playing with him.

These players are necessary to do and show how to do the dirty work next to your classy looking ball playing defenders.

The problem for Stones is that he's got Otamendi who, as pointed out, makes just as many mistakes as John.

That's all well and good, but pretty much every criticism stems from fundamental mistakes and errors purely of his own volition.

4th goal v Everton: dawdles, inviting pressure upon himself. Had he cleared that ball straight away, there'd have been no goal.

1st goal last night: inexplicably steps out of defence, then changes his mind too late, leaving Falcao was in front of the other defender. Correctly positioned, he'd easily have cut out that cross.

3rd goal last night: self-explanatory. Totally muscled off the ball, then lunged in instead of staying on his feet and trying to force Falcao into a speculative shot.

So even the greatest defender in the world alongside him would've have prevented any of them goals.

 

[Khalekan]

That's all well and good, but pretty much every criticism stems from fundamental mistakes and errors purely of his own volition.

4th goal v Everton: dawdles, inviting pressure upon himself. Had he cleared that ball straight away, there'd have been no goal.

1st goal last night: inexplicably steps out of defence, then changes his mind too late, leaving Falcao was in front of the other defender. Correctly positioned, he'd easily have cut out that cross.

3rd goal last night: self-explanatory. Totally muscled off the ball, then lunged in instead of staying on his feet and trying to force Falcao into a speculative shot.

So even the greatest defender in the world alongside him would've have prevented any of them goals.

You wha?

I thought John was the greatest defender in the world

 

[degsy]

The feller's hopeless mate. Hopeless CB anyway.

If he was taken out of that back four it'd solve an awful lot of problems for City. He brings chaos to it.

Solve back 4 maybe. If you put him in MF, you'd just move the problem - He's the equivalent of Niasse in MF.
Having long legs, being able to 'drop a shoulder' and look cool as you go forward doesn't make you a Mid Fielder
If nobody EVER played him there for Barnsley - and if he's good enough to play there for a top 4 team now, he would've been good enough 4yrs ago at Barnsley's level.

We got the money, City got the problem, fair swap imo

 

[davek]

Solve back 4 maybe. If you put him in MF, you'd just move the problem - He's the equivalent of Niasse in MF.
Having long legs, being able to 'drop a shoulder' and look cool as you go forward doesn't make you a Mid Fielder
If nobody EVER played him there for Barnsley - and if he's good enough to play there for a top 4 team now, he would've been good enough 4yrs ago at Barnsley's level.

We got the money, City got the problem, fair swap imo

Exact same height as Michael Carrick, and it didn't stop him from being a very good CM distributor. In fact, I think he's more suited to the role than Carrick as he can win physical battles a lot better than Carrick as well as being able to distribute and get forward.

The sooner his manager sees he's really a CM the better. Been saying it for years and it's absolutely true.

 

[bluestevon]

*remembers all the stick received for saying he wasn't a defender...and laughs VERY LOUDLY*

@MorgsGoat @bluestevon

Cool Dave, glad your finally admitting that having 3 of his most formative years under Martinez has really damaged his defending, thats what will happen when your managed by someone who doesn't think defending is really important part of the game.

Meanwhile will enjoy Ross finally having a manager whose teaching him it's importance.

 

[degsy]

Exact same height as Michael Carrick, and it didn't stop him from being a very good CM distributor. In fact, I think he's more suited to the role than Carrick as he can win physical battles a lot better than Carrick as well as being able to distribute and get forward.

The sooner his manager sees he's really a CM the better. Been saying it for years and it's absolutely true.

Martinez never saw it and some say he's no slouch, in fact some say he's very good...but I couldn't possibly comment.
#never going to happen

 

[upthetoffees]

You wha?

I thought John was the greatest defender in the world

The lad can't stand next to himself. 2nd best defender in the world**

 

[upthetoffees]

Also thoroughly do not believe he belongs in the midfield. Really needs to go on loan somewhere. Maybe he would do better in a relegation battle situation.

I feel like the fancy footwork, etc proves he WANTS to be seen as a midfielder. Think he tries way too hard to show that. At the very closest I could see him being a more "forward" CB in a 5 defender formation. That won't happen at City.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

That's all well and good, but pretty much every criticism stems from fundamental mistakes and errors purely of his own volition.

4th goal v Everton: dawdles, inviting pressure upon himself. Had he cleared that ball straight away, there'd have been no goal.

1st goal last night: inexplicably steps out of defence, then changes his mind too late, leaving Falcao was in front of the other defender. Correctly positioned, he'd easily have cut out that cross.

3rd goal last night: self-explanatory. Totally muscled off the ball, then lunged in instead of staying on his feet and trying to force Falcao into a speculative shot.

So even the greatest defender in the world alongside him would've have prevented any of them goals.

I never implied his errors were anything else but his own. I'm talking about the learning curve playing alongside a born leader and top defender, not eliminating his errors in a one off match besides someone good.

On another note, I'm convinced most of his errors are down to lack of confidence. Last season did a lot of damage to the defenders on our books imo. Still think he's got all the tools to be a top class centre half. Needs to sort his head out though because he's a liability at the moment.

 

[Khalekan]

Cool Dave, glad your finally admitting that having 3 of his most formative years under Martinez has really damaged his defending, thats what will happen when your managed by someone who doesn't think defending is really important part of the game.

Meanwhile will enjoy Ross finally having a manager whose teaching him it's importance.

If I am honest with you Stevon, given what I have seen of Guardiola since he came to England, Stones's current manager has the same Cavalier disregard for defending as Bobby did.

And he is supposed to be the greatest coach in the world

Happen the fault lies more in the fact Stones is nowhere near as good a defender as his diminishing band of admirers would have you believe he is, rather than the playing styles of the two managers he has played under.

 

[The Cowboy]

I never implied his errors were anything else but his own. I'm talking about the learning curve playing alongside a born leader and top defender, not eliminating his errors in a one off match besides someone good.

On another note, I'm convinced most of his errors are down to lack of confidence. Last season did a lot of damage to the defenders on our books imo. Still think he's got all the tools to be a top class centre half. Needs to sort his head out though because he's a liability at the moment.

I actually don't think he's got the temperament to make it at the top level. He seems mentally fragile, that pained grimace hardly exudes confidence. The opposition target him, and he's seemingly incapable of imposing himself.

 

[davek]

Cool Dave, glad your finally admitting that having 3 of his most formative years under Martinez has really damaged his defending, thats what will happen when your managed by someone who doesn't think defending is really important part of the game.

Meanwhile will enjoy Ross finally having a manager whose teaching him it's importance.

But you saw his value as a defender all through that time and stated that his position was CB and he's a great defender....

When or IF (i hope not), he leaves us it will be to Barca or Madrid, the lad is that good and anywhere else he would be selling himself short, last time i saw a player of his age and position as good was Nesta

The entire Chelsea saga rather than bend or break him has seen him take that next step up mate, best cb of his age since Nesta

As for Martinez's coaching: well Guardiola has been with him for the past 8 months...and he's worse than when he was here. That must make Guardiola a "fraud" too I suppose?

 

[bluestevon]

If I am honest with you Stevon, given what I have seen of Guardiola since he came to England, Stones's current manager has the same Cavalier disregard for defending as Bobby did.

And he is supposed to be the greatest coach in the world

Happen the fault lies more in the fact Stones is nowhere near as good a defender as his diminishing band of admirers would have you believe he is, rather than the playing styles of the two managers he has played under.

Guardiola is the manager who rates keepers primarily on their distribution rather than ability to save, claim balls etc mate, as a coach he isn't someone I'd say has any particular rep for creating exceptional defenders more that his teams are that overpowering going forward that no one has the ball enough to test them.

Stones from 19-20 under a top class manager who knows how to mould defenders would have been a cracking player. He's regressed every season on his defending.

 

[bluestevon]

But you saw his value as a defender all through that time and stated that his position was CB and he's a great defender....






As for Martinez's coaching: well Guardiola has been with him for the past 8 months...and he's worse than when he was here. That must make Guardiola a "fraud" too I suppose?

His position is cb mate, you slag his positioning off all the time, yet then reckon he's like Carrick, a player whose biggest strength is being great positionally.

As for guardiola, great offensive manager, but when you manage bayern and barca with the quality they have going forward, you can get away with bravo and cbs like mascherano. Mascherano playing cb in this league would be all over the shop.