Transfer Rumour Kalidou Koulibaly

[Neiler]

Head explosions by the start of July.

 

[bluestevon]

Seems that's the case. If its 49mil that's hefty but look at the US American football draft...

They realise the need for superstar players and trade their picks so they can get the first round highest draft pick..

Its a simplistic example but shows that we need to aim for the best possible 'picks' in terms of players and if that means paying buyout fees to land superstars who will take us into the top 4 we need to do that.

Massive difference between say Gibson and Keane or VVD and Koulibaly.

The English lads could form a strong partnership and take us around the top 4 level and improve us a bit whilst the foreign players would be a dramatic improvement.

This summer will show the ambition of the owner IMO

if we sign good solid players and thats it like Keane etc, then ultimately we are settling for the best of the rest to solidify us as top 7 with the remote chance of a freak season where we over achieve.

We need to bring in players of the quality that people would say was beyond us, be that VVD, Koulibaly, Mertens, Tielmans, Lacazette etc

Go and get a star player from a team that isn't some bottom of the table outfit and who is in demand and regarded as one of the top in his position (or top prospect at least)

IF we won't overpay in comparison to other teams after the player, we simply won't get them, so it depends if the owner is willing to short term do so, if he isn't then in all reality we will fall further behind the teams that do and just have a nice view of the top 6 glass ceiling instead of the old top 4 one

 

[rochdaleblue]

This summer will show the ambition of the owner IMO

if we sign good solid players and thats it like Keane etc, then ultimately we are settling for the best of the rest to solidify us as top 7 with the remote chance of a freak season where we over achieve.

We need to bring in players of the quality that people would say was beyond us, be that VVD, Koulibaly, Mertens, Tielmans, Lacazette etc

Go and get a star player from a team that isn't some bottom of the table outfit and who is in demand and regarded as one of the top in his position (or top prospect at least)

IF we won't overpay in comparison to other teams after the player, we simply won't get them, so it depends if the owner is willing to short term do so, if he isn't then in all reality we will fall further behind the teams that do and just have a nice view of the top 6 glass ceiling instead of the old top 4 one

It's all a balancing act. I get what your saying. We need to identify the position or player we need. Central defence is a priority. If we overpay we might get VVD or koulibaly and what an improvement they would be. Another example is tielemans, I think we are going to have to pay over the asking rate if we want him, due to the demand for him. Alternatively we could go down the keane, Gibson route (both sound players in my eyes) and we could purchase both for the cost of VVD or Koulibaly. But would they make us strong enough to challenge the top 4? Naturally we can't overspend for every target we are going for, but to bridge the gap that exists, we need proven quality to take us to the next level and that's not going to be cheap.

 

[Zatara]

This summer will show the ambition of the owner IMO

if we sign good solid players and thats it like Keane etc, then ultimately we are settling for the best of the rest to solidify us as top 7 with the remote chance of a freak season where we over achieve.

We need to bring in players of the quality that people would say was beyond us, be that VVD, Koulibaly, Mertens, Tielmans, Lacazette etc

Go and get a star player from a team that isn't some bottom of the table outfit and who is in demand and regarded as one of the top in his position (or top prospect at least)

IF we won't overpay in comparison to other teams after the player, we simply won't get them, so it depends if the owner is willing to short term do so, if he isn't then in all reality we will fall further behind the teams that do and just have a nice view of the top 6 glass ceiling instead of the old top 4 one

@rochdaleblue as you say, its like swapping Stones for Koulibaly (or similar quality)for a little extra (we ended up with 40mil ish).

Looking at the transfer news today, Lindelof, Marquinos, VVD and Koulibaly are all rated around 40-50mil.

I don't really see that figure as 'overpaying'. If Gibson is valued at 30mil and Keane 25mil when neither have performed at the top level (champions league or internationally) or for top sides + only been doing well for a season then 40-50mil is the premium for a star player from a better team. In Napolis case, their best player (or one of their best) with champions league and international acclaim.

You are almost 'guaranteeing' high level performances, or as close to doing so as possible.

Looking at our league, its clear that Jose will sign another centre back to play with Bailly, Chelsea will also strengthen. They are likely to have the best two defences in the league next season.

To get 3rd or 4th place we logically need to have a defence correlating with that position.

 

[bluestevon]

It's all a balancing act. I get what your saying. We need to identify the position or player we need. Central defence is a priority. If we overpay we might get VVD or koulibaly and what an improvement they would be. Another example is tielemans, I think we are going to have to pay over the asking rate if we want him, due to the demand for him. Alternatively we could go down the keane, Gibson route (both sound players in my eyes) and we could purchase both for the cost of VVD or Koulibaly. But would they make us strong enough to challenge the top 4? Naturally we can't overspend for every target we are going for, but to bridge the gap that exists, we need proven quality to take us to the next level and that's not going to be cheap.

Ferguson was the master at building a squad.

Generally a good solid base of players, then always ensuring that they had 2-3 star players who where regarded as top players in the team, it's effectively the method that allowed United to bring through so many young players over the years as well, they had those star players who would take responsibility in games and allow the younger players time to find their feet.

It's why the signed Cantona when they did, it's why the signed Van Persie in his last season etc

 

[Zatara]

It's all a balancing act. I get what your saying. We need to identify the position or player we need. Central defence is a priority. If we overpay we might get VVD or koulibaly and what an improvement they would be. Another example is tielemans, I think we are going to have to pay over the asking rate if we want him, due to the demand for him. Alternatively we could go down the keane, Gibson route (both sound players in my eyes) and we could purchase both for the cost of VVD or Koulibaly. But would they make us strong enough to challenge the top 4? Naturally we can't overspend for every target we are going for, but to bridge the gap that exists, we need proven quality to take us to the next level and that's not going to be cheap.

If its a monetary question, lets say Gibson and Keane cost the same as Koulibaly.

We could have the 2 Englishmen as 1st choice and Jags, Williams, Pennington etc as backup.

Alternatively, we sign Koulibaly and play him alongside say Williams for a season and have Jags/Pennington as backup.

I'd take Koulibaly every single time and the following season go and sign another superstar to play alongside him.

 

[Zatara]

Ferguson was the master at building a squad.

Generally a good solid base of players, then always ensuring that they had 2-3 star players who where regarded as top players in the team, it's effectively the method that allowed United to bring through so many young players over the years as well, they had those star players who would take responsibility in games and allow the younger players time to find their feet.

It's why the signed Cantona when they did, it's why the signed Van Persie in his last season etc

At the moment, other teams look at us and see Lukaku (possibly Barkley) but no top keeper or centre backs so they know that if they stop lukaku then they can win the game.

Adding a star centre back raises questions...adding 2 gives them problems.

 

[bluestevon]

@rochdaleblue as you say, its like swapping Stones for Koulibaly (or similar quality)for a little extra (we ended up with 40mil ish).

Looking at the transfer news today, Lindelof, Marquinos, VVD and Koulibaly are all rated around 40-50mil.

I don't really see that figure as 'overpaying'. If Gibson is valued at 30mil and Keane 25mil when neither have performed at the top level (champions league or internationally) or for top sides + only been doing well for a season then 40-50mil is the premium for a star player from a better team. In Napolis case, their best player (or one of their best) with champions league and international acclaim.

You are almost 'guaranteeing' high level performances, or as close to doing so as possible.

Looking at our league, its clear that Jose will sign another centre back to play with Bailly, Chelsea will also strengthen. They are likely to have the best two defences in the league next season.

To get 3rd or 4th place we logically need to have a defence correlating with that position.

Neither will have the best defence mate, Spurs have the best defence in the league in terms of starters and in terms of depth.

City will never have a great defence, they will just try get one that's not a liability with fullbacks that can play Guardiolas system, they do that all they need is an adequate defence/keeper as they will hammer teams, Mourinho will strengthen for sure - he made his reputation on having a rock solid defence (but United need a lot of players much like City do this Summer)

Don't be shocked if Guardiola signs Mascherano btw

My sneak suspicion is that none of the teams above us right now will spend the money needed for Koulibaly or VVD btw, they will go at the level and price below (30-40m)

 

[Zatara]

Neither will have the best defence mate, Spurs have the best defence in the league in terms of starters and in terms of depth.

City will never have a great defence, they will just try get one that's not a liability with fullbacks that can play Guardiolas system, they do that all they need is an adequate defence/keeper as they will hammer teams, Mourinho will strengthen for sure - he made his reputation on having a rock solid defence (but United need a lot of players much like City do this Summer)

Don't be shocked if Guardiola signs Mascherano btw

My sneak suspicion is that none of the teams above us right now will spend the money needed for Koulibaly or VVD btw, they will go at the level and price below (30-40m)

Totally forgot about Spurs....

So United / Spurs / Chelsea.

We either need to have the 4th or better based defence...as well as the 4th or better attack...or an amazing attack or defence.

Then of course, City and the RS will be gung-ho attacking so...

At the moment, we have Jags and Williams (Mori must surely be sold) who are going to be going downhill as time goes by...

Perhaps Keane/Gibson could be turned into a top pairing by Koeman. I think its unlikely but possible, but when compared with the 3 other teams with big money to spend to add to established quality defences I think its unlikely.

For me, we will do one of these things;

1 - Sign VVD + Koulibaly (or similar level)
2 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly + Keane (or similar level)
3 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly and a prospect (or similar level)
4 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly (or similar level)
5 - Sign Keane and Gibson (or similar level)
6 - Sign Keane and a prospect (or similar level)
7 - Sign Keane (or similar level)

For me, 1-4 are the different levels of 'seriousness' at aiming for top 4.
5 is like a punt to see if we can get top 4
6 and 7 are settling for 7th.

 

[bluestevon]

Totally forgot about Spurs....

So United / Spurs / Chelsea.

We either need to have the 4th or better based defence...as well as the 4th or better attack...or an amazing attack or defence.

Then of course, City and the RS will be gung-ho attacking so...

At the moment, we have Jags and Williams (Mori must surely be sold) who are going to be going downhill as time goes by...

Perhaps Keane/Gibson could be turned into a top pairing by Koeman. I think its unlikely but possible, but when compared with the 3 other teams with big money to spend to add to established quality defences I think its unlikely.

For me, we will do one of these things;

1 - Sign VVD + Koulibaly (or similar level)
2 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly + Keane (or similar level)
3 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly and a prospect (or similar level)
4 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly (or similar level)
5 - Sign Keane and Gibson (or similar level)
6 - Sign Keane and a prospect (or similar level)
7 - Sign Keane (or similar level)

For me, 1-4 are the different levels of 'seriousness' at aiming for top 4.
5 is like a punt to see if we can get top 4
6 and 7 are settling for 7th.

1. will not happen in a month of Sundays Zat, and would argue even if financially we could manage it - it'd prove a bad mistake as we'd be left unable to strengthen anywhere else due to the cost of them both.
6 & 7 would be a mistake - it'd be treading water and ultimately at the back we'd be weaker than when we had Jags and Lescott/Distin in reality, same for5 really as don't think either of those is better than what we had years back.

2. is the obvious option

felt like a multi choice question that did

 

[Darth Toffeeman]

Totally forgot about Spurs....

So United / Spurs / Chelsea.

We either need to have the 4th or better based defence...as well as the 4th or better attack...or an amazing attack or defence.

Then of course, City and the RS will be gung-ho attacking so...

At the moment, we have Jags and Williams (Mori must surely be sold) who are going to be going downhill as time goes by...

Perhaps Keane/Gibson could be turned into a top pairing by Koeman. I think its unlikely but possible, but when compared with the 3 other teams with big money to spend to add to established quality defences I think its unlikely.

For me, we will do one of these things;

1 - Sign VVD + Koulibaly (or similar level)
2 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly + Keane (or similar level)
3 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly and a prospect (or similar level)
4 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly (or similar level)
5 - Sign Keane and Gibson (or similar level)
6 - Sign Keane and a prospect (or similar level)
7 - Sign Keane (or similar level)

For me, 1-4 are the different levels of 'seriousness' at aiming for top 4.
5 is like a punt to see if we can get top 4
6 and 7 are settling for 7th.

The most encouraging stat is that we have remained competitive with an aging back line and Holgate (who has now had nearly 12 months exposure).

I would expect we are aiming for option 2.

Koeman made VVD and Fonte into a fabulous CB pairing. He clearly has the ability to coach a solid defensive unit.
Our issue is that we have to sit slightly deeper due to the lack of pace currently.

If we can attract a pairing from the 2+ others mentioned (the manager stated we need 26, 27 year olds who are primed), then we can really push next season.

 

[Zatara]

1. will not happen in a month of Sundays Zat, and would argue even if financially we could manage it - it'd prove a bad mistake as we'd be left unable to strengthen anywhere else due to the cost of them both.
6 & 7 would be a mistake - it'd be treading water and ultimately at the back we'd be weaker than when we had Jags and Lescott/Distin in reality, same for5 really as don't think either of those is better than what we had years back.

2. is the obvious option

felt like a multi choice question that did

I'm not sure, I think its hard to gauge how much we will spend or who we would buy.

I do disagree about going for option 1 though...if we do move on the 'deadwood' / squad players for 80mil and can land VVD+ Koulibaly or similar quality star players for 80-100mil then for me its really a no-brainer. Very worst case it costs us 20mil and if we are going for top 4 then I think we need to have a budget of 80-100mil to spend....taking 20mil from that for 2 superb centre backs makes total sense to me

 

[rochdaleblue]

Totally forgot about Spurs....

So United / Spurs / Chelsea.

We either need to have the 4th or better based defence...as well as the 4th or better attack...or an amazing attack or defence.

Then of course, City and the RS will be gung-ho attacking so...

At the moment, we have Jags and Williams (Mori must surely be sold) who are going to be going downhill as time goes by...

Perhaps Keane/Gibson could be turned into a top pairing by Koeman. I think its unlikely but possible, but when compared with the 3 other teams with big money to spend to add to established quality defences I think its unlikely.

For me, we will do one of these things;

1 - Sign VVD + Koulibaly (or similar level)
2 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly + Keane (or similar level)
3 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly and a prospect (or similar level)
4 - Sign VVD/Koulibaly (or similar level)
5 - Sign Keane and Gibson (or similar level)
6 - Sign Keane and a prospect (or similar level)
7 - Sign Keane (or similar level)

For me, 1-4 are the different levels of 'seriousness' at aiming for top 4.
5 is like a punt to see if we can get top 4
6 and 7 are settling for 7th.

I think we'd all be delighted with that. I forgot about Mori - maybe we could recoup what we paid for him and put the money towards a top class keeper. We would really be in business then.

 

[Zatara]

The most encouraging stat is that we have remained competitive with an aging back line and Holgate (who has now had nearly 12 months exposure).

I would expect we are aiming for option 2.

Koeman made VVD and Fonte into a fabulous CB pairing. He clearly has the ability to coach a solid defensive unit.
Our issue is that we have to sit slightly deeper due to the lack of pace currently.

If we can attract a pairing from the 2+ others mentioned (the manager stated we need 26, 27 year olds who are primed), then we can really push next season.

Yeah, I keep harping on about the need for pace in defence so we can play a high line. Obviously then the opposition is further away from our goal lol and our players can recover but also our team is also further up the pitch so our chances of scoring should be higher lol

Sounds simple to me....one thing, VVD and Koulibaly (especially) are both quick...Keane is meant to be fast as well so option 2 seems likely and it would make sense to add an English player into the team as well....I feel we need to aim for 1 though.

Key really is whether we land Keane, the other English players don't really interest me...it could be that Koeman can turn him into a top player but I think he can only further improve next to a star.

 

[Zatara]

I think we'd all be delighted with that. I forgot about Mori - maybe we could recoup what we paid for him and put the money towards a top class keeper. We would really be in business then.

I think keane, VVD and koulibaly are all 6'3-6'4 ish so then it makes sense to go for these tall centre backs as with our centre midfield being strong defensively we have big lads there to head away any long balls and pace to recover.

It makes further sense if we are after 6'1 Pickford as they will be a major plus on corners