keioc and sos working together ?

[Tom Hughes]

I posted this a while back;



It definitely is an issue.

Typical fan? It's hardly a typical view though is it? That is the rear of the lower Bullens, and represents a tiny proportion of our total capacity. Are you really suggesting we must move at all costs because a few hundred seats out of 40,000 are that bad? There are ways of means of erradicating most of these, or even rebuilding the whole thing. The real problem to fans is they are horrendously over-priced. Charge half-price or less and the same people who moan about them would be in a Q fighting over them. Fenway and Wriggley field have loads of obstructions but price them accordingly (not like there isn't a whole section of the fanbase currently priced out of footy who'd love the opportunity for cheap tickets), and no-one would consider knocking them down, and some major new stadia have crackers too.

 

[Duckling]

Just out of interest, did the club say it was impossible, or not viable?

A lot tend to say "Everton said it's impossible to develop Goodison... see, they were lying" etc etc, but I'm pretty sure it was always a viability issue.

Good point! I really don't remember exactly, but your version sounds more likely. It's a small but vital distinction.

On another issue, why are Liverpool deciding against redeveloping Anfield?

Have they? I really don't pay them that much attention. I know they've been adamant for ages that the new Anfield in Stanley Park will go ahead, but also that they're having difficulty finding the money (think they may even have scaled it down a bit?). I also know the England 2018 World Cup bid had the New Anfield or a redeveloped Anfield as one of the host stadiums. That might just betray less confidence on the bid committee's part and LFC themselves have more knowledge of their situation obviously, but maybe there's more to it. Who knows?


Well somebody does obviously, but they're never going to tell the likes of us are they?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Typical fan? It's hardly a typical view though is it?

It was cut from another discussion. Tyipical fan who buys a ticket late, typical fan who sits near the back of the Gwladys/Bullets. Context.

That is the rear of the lower Bullens, and represents a tiny proportion of our total capacity. Are you really suggesting we must move at all costs because a few hundred seats out of 40,000 are that bad?

Not at all. I want to remain at Goodison :huh: Just highlighting that obstructed views are certainly an issue that needs addressing, more so than a £1 deduction.

It's more than a few hundred seats by the way. Try 4,000

There are ways of means of erradicating most of these, or even rebuilding the whole thing.

Of course.

The real problem to fans is they are horrendously over-priced.

As said.

Charge half-price or less and the same people who moan about them would be in a Q fighting over them.

Or better yet, prevent them. Utilise the capacity. Quality over quantity.

 

[Tom Hughes]

No - that had commercial backing you see. Not ideal, but a necessity as "a 60,000 seater stadium costs a few bob. A few bob more than we have"

So why aren't we there then? Cross subsidy had shrunk to a max of £10-12m before the public Inquiry. Meaning the "commercial backing" was only ever a tiny proportion of the stadium cost.

"Backing" has to be more than a simple word or an empty promise it would seem!

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Have they? I really don't pay them that much attention. I know they've been adamant for ages that the new Anfield in Stanley Park will go ahead, but also that they're having difficulty finding the money (think they may even have scaled it down a bit?).

Even if they had the money Duck, I doubt they would be eager to splash it. Why when LCC will be eager to push it through for the WC?

 

[alexishelmsley]

I dont EVER want Everton to move from Goodison... EVER. I just hope that whoever's making these decisions can come up with something that keeps us there!

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

Its called "market research" mate.

Everyone has what's known as "disposable income" that they usually use to entertain themselves...

Dvds, cinema, football, hobbies etc.

If you price the football on show right, then you can compete better with these other areas where disposable income is spent.

I said on here yesterday the club have completed market research twice in two years and that no doubt they now have a database on

- season ticket holders (age, location, sex etc as well as other info)
- Evertonia members
- other supporters clubs

They also can keep info on enquiries for the likes of last seasons' FA Cup Semi and Final... where demand outstripped supply by 300%.

Thats 120000 names in itself.

I wouldn't worry about filling it.

so you reckon that we would fill 60,000 for every game ?
we all have loads of disposable income ?

supply demand for the fa cup semi & final ? of course every man and his dog wanted to go, and no doubt a whole load of touts would've applied as well.

So is every decent view seat filled with a season ticket holder at the moment ? obviously I don't mean totally unobstructed 'cos the main stand is even obstructed by 2 big posts.

People who hadn't been for years wanted to go to the final.

to say that there are 120,000 members doesn't really mean anything, as there aren't 120,000 that will wish to go on a regular basis. I have 3 kids, they all have memberships or rather customer numbers, but they don't all go. The way that tickets have been sold in the past i.e. if you have been to 1 home then you can get a ticket (or apply) has prompted people to get multiple customer numbers..... as you have to pay for Evertonia I seriously don't believe that there are 120,000 paid up members. That would put us in the bracket of Barca/ R. Madrid.

There are the season ticket holders and then a great number that will go to a couple of games a season and won't go to any more just because the stadium is bigger, a few might but it comes down to cost and prices won't come down unless players wages do the same.

 

[Duckling]

Even if they had the money Duck, I doubt they would be eager to splash it. Why when LCC will be eager to push it through for the WC?

Quite, but LCC will just want to make sure Liverpool is a host city. If they can do it cheaper with a redeveloped Anfield, I'm sure they'd prefer that. While LFC will also be desperate to have their ground included - major kudos loss if it isn't. I guess it depends what kind of brinkmanship game both sides are prepared to play. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides fark it up and Liverpool ends up with no WC games at all!

On a related note, EFC should get sharper at influencing the local politicians. They (IMO) dropped a bit of a clanger in shutting them out over the last few years (due to the exclusivity deal with Tesco) and making one or two statements on the lines of "LCC haven't come up with anything for us."

I think there are some bridges to be built there, while at the same time being a bit cute in manipulating the local media to highlight and emphasise any uneven treatment of the two clubs.

 

[Hayee]

I dont EVER want Everton to move from Goodison... EVER. I just hope that whoever's making these decisions can come up with something that keeps us there!

this

 

[GrandOldTeam]

On a related note, EFC should get sharper at influencing the local politicians. They (IMO) dropped a bit of a clanger in shutting them out over the last few years (due to the exclusivity deal with Tesco) and making one or two statements on the lines of "LCC haven't come up with anything for us."

I'm not so sure. I think the exclusivity deal was rubbish from LCC. Everton have been exploring stadium options since the late 80's. A few months in to an 'Exclusivity deal' LCC spout "Well we can't help because of an exclusivity deal". What about the years before? and what about now?

 

[Tom Hughes]

It was cut from another discussion. Tyipical fan who buys a ticket late, typical fan who sits near the back of the Gwladys/Bullets. Context.

Not particularly typical then? What about the other 36-38,000 views?
Why not mention the fact that the views afforded to the upper Bullens as a result of these marvellous Leitch columns are amongst the best in the whole league, a full 15m closer to the action than any in the upper tiers of the emirates for instance. Or what about the atmosphere generated under these stands so cherished by generations of blues?

There's an up side too you know?

It's more than a few hundred seats by the way.

The rearmost rows (behind the second row of columns) are very few in number.... and could be lost in a reprofile in anycase

Or better yet, prevent them. Utilise the capacity. Quality over quantity.

New Bullens, or new tier behind existing upper would add quality and quantity as achieved at the likes of Ibrox and various other stadia where similar extensions have been used. In otherwords, I don't believe these old stands are necessarily beyond redemption, and they have some qualities new builds rarely boast.... such as character and intimacy.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

*face palm*

Tom, theres a fair few more than a few hundred obstructed views at Goodison Park. 4,000 of the 40,000 are actually discounted because of being an "obstructed view" of the goal, with 12,000 having an obstructed view of the pitch.

• 10% of the Stadium seating has an obstructed view if the goal area;
• Approximately 12,000 of the 40,000 seats (30%) have an obstructed view of the playing area.

Approximately 10% of seats (ie 4,000!) at Goodison Park are classed as obstructed views in which part of the pitch or goals are obscured from view.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Just out of interest, did the club say it was impossible, or not viable?

A lot tend to say "Everton said it's impossible to develop Goodison... see, they were lying" etc etc, but I'm pretty sure it was always a viability issue.

On another issue, why are Liverpool deciding against redeveloping Anfield?

I can give you the chronology on this as I attended the shareholder's meeting when Wyness first suggested DK. When asked about Redevelopment of GP he started by saying that GP could not be redeveloped to anything beyond 30-35k (this was later reported as such), and therefore this negated any redevelopment option. At that point it seemed he was blissfully unaware that GFE had already proven it could.

Within days of being shown these plans and others for a redeveloped stadium, the stance was changed to it not being viable, as opposed to not possible.

BTW, Liverpool are considering redeveloping and have plans to do so if necessary, except you have to remember they have already pushed the boundaries substantially with Anfield by redeveloping 3 sides already and are attracted to the blank canvas because they know they have substantial surplus demand and profile to fill it NOW and the transition would then be seamless. Unlike Man Utd, they made the mistake of not building as much flexibility into their previous developments.

 

[Duckling]

I'm not so sure. I think the exclusivity deal was rubbish from LCC. Everton have been exploring stadium options since the late 80's. A few months in to an 'Exclusivity deal' LCC spout "Well we can't help because of an exclusivity deal". What about the years before? and what about now?

Err, have I read that wrong? You're not suggesting that the exclusivity deal was made up to get the council off the hook in the short term are you? You're just suggesting they took advantage of the fact Everton had entered into one so they could throw their arms in the air while looking as if they wanted to help?

If so, you could be right. They have of course said they'll work with the club to try and work something out, but we all know how much talk costs. Everton have said a lot of things. KEIOC/GFE/A.N. Other bunch of hairy arsed Evertonians have said lots of things. Few of them have produced much actual progress at all...which ends up with us all getting frustrated and sniping at each other via keyboards in a soft blue glow from our monitors, all of us internet warriors fighting the good fight for our club and neglecting necessary work (quickly checks the boss isn't looking).

Everton Football Club Company Limited is a private business residing and trading in Liverpool. It's up to the council to help local businesses as this helps the local economy and hence the voters they are supposed to be acting on behalf of.

On the other hand, they shouldn't be identifying any one particular local business for extra help. It's really up to Everton to go to them and say "Here's what we want to do. We need your help in this way. Can you provide it?" What they ask for should be reasonable and appropriate and the request should be formal so if they get knocked back, they can publicise how they've been treated properly. From what I've seen and read in the past, most of what's gone on between them has been arse-covering on both sides - "Don't blame us, blame them"...and most of us have lapped it up and started throwing stones of our own.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

100% Agree Duck