keioc and sos working together ?

[Tom Hughes]

He did, prior the meetings.

4th Feb

BBC Sport - Football - Everton considering Goodison Park & new stadium options

"We've met with developers and land owners and we've commissioned a fresh look at Goodison Park with a highly recommended architect," said Elstone.
"I hope we are able to report progress in the near future."

Laughing at the thought of KEIOC instigating stadium action.

You can laugh all you want..... fact remains the club invited KEIOC immediately following the rejection which was several months before February, where redevelopment ideas were presented as a result of which a feasibilty study was commisioned. There are further meetings scheduled over the next few weeks. Also KEIOC instigated the whole football Quarter idea which has also generated several high-level meetings with all concerned parties..... this I'd suggest amounts to a far greater contribution than a few disparaging remarks on a forum.

As remarked elsewhere though (by Dave I think), it really isn't about KEIOC, it's about the real issues.

 

[moyes_bringin_it_back]

Prompted into meetings by other parties.

I think from Elstone's last blog you can see exactly what's on Everton's owners minds re the stadium issue when he makes this statement: 'it's not about quantity it's about quality'. In other words, they'll do exactly what they said was the option pre DK decision when they were pushed on a Plan B if DK failed...to patch up and repair the ground. Coming soon to a ground near you: a free standing restaurant at the Park End to replace the tent. And that'll be your lot.

They are a busted flush. A rabble, panhandling private and public bodies with zero investment to offer themselves. They want to be attending events with innovative solutions to the stadium problem like they want swine flu.

STOP SEEING CONSIPRACY WHERE THERE IS NONE.

He talks about "quality" versus "quantity"

He's refering to us not needing a 70000 stadium.

He's refering to us needing a ca. 60000 purpose built stadium - to suit Everton's needs.

Inter Milan are leaving the San Siro for a 60000 purpose built stadium and expect to TREBLE revenue in 2014.

Munich 1860 can't fill the 70000 Allianz arena leading to poor atmosphere and worse issues - which they no longer own half since relegation and are broke. It's ruined their club!


Elstone's refering to us having a purpose built/redeveloped stadia of high quality - that fits our purposes.

Max 60000 (currently) capacity of high standard with loads of high revenue generating corporate capacity which we miss now.

Thats quality.

Stop seeing conspiracy when there isn't one.

He's obviously got more of an idea in current trends / tradeoffs in stadia redevelopment than you! Munich 1860 and Inter Milan two perfect examples!

PS. Everton arn't going to Kirkby. That issue is DEAD. GONE. FINISHED. So stop ****ging the club off about it. Its finished with.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Might be worth remembering that the stadium has been smack bang top of the agenda for over ten years. Thats before KEIOC. It's been the number one issue for every chief exec since Dunford. In fact, heres Dunford answering questions on the issue ten years ago The EISA Meet Michael Dunford[FONT=&quot]

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Is that the same Dunford who admitted that there had never been a full feasibilty study for redevelopment of GP carried out after the Kings Dock fiasco.

Add to him Wyness' farcical performance.....

Where are they both now? Hasn't one got a gagging order too?

You're right, there has been three attempts to relocate over the past 10yrs+......... but where are we?

Commissioning a feasibility study for the redevelopment of GP.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Reap what you sow to be honest!

I have little sympathy with anone who had a major problem with Kirby and then is irked buy the existing or minor infrastructure chages.

I think you find even the club had a major problem with Kirkby...... hence the reason why they never appealed or even considered it. It simply wasn't viable on any count, and no-one, neither the club nor Knowsley are arguing otherwise anymore.

 

[moyes_bringin_it_back]

I think you find even the club had a major problem with Kirkby...... hence the reason why they never appealed or even considered it. It simply wasn't viable on any count, and no-one, neither the club nor Knowsley are arguing otherwise anymore.

Doesn't matter about Kirkby. KEIOC should stop dwelling on what you/they perceive as "past glories" or tactics that worked then. Those tactics are inappropriate now.

And I hope you pass on my comments on the last page Tom Hughes. About softly softly approach / carrot and stick.


Its gone. Kirkby is finished. End of.

And if Elstone is commenting about "quality versus quantity" its not an excuse to **** the club off...

because Inter Milan are doing it... and Munich 1860 wished they had.

Elstone's not saying anything unusual in a blog on the main site.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Is that the same Dunford who admitted that there had never been a full feasibilty study for redevelopment of GP carried out after the Kings Dock fiasco.

Add to him Wyness' farcical performance.....

Where are they both now? Hasn't one got a gagging order too?

Epitomises that theres only two ways we're going to get a new shiny stadium.

1) A billionaire decides to make Everton his play thing
2) We receive substantial commercial backing

Until either happen, forget about a new stadium. It won't happen. A hotel won't fund the "world class" stadium we all crave. We'll remain at Goodison with continuous attempts to patch it up. Anything more is a pipedream.

You're right, there has been three attempts to relocate over the past 10yrs+......... but where are we?

Commissioning a feasibility study for the redevelopment of GP.

You see, this is why these threads keep getting locked. Roundabouts followed by the inevitable squabbling. I've explained this to you here and here

Feasibility is an ongoing process. Prices/technology change. As explained by our Chief Exec a few weeks ago.

"We've met with developers and land owners and we've also commissioned a fresh look at Goodison Park with a highly-recommended architect who had no involvement in Kirkby or our previous reviews of Goodison,"

"The economy, in all respects, changes from day to day and we have to refresh our conclusions and look for new opportunities.

 

[moyes_bringin_it_back]

Epitomises that theres only two ways we're going to get a new shiny stadium.

1) A billionaire decides to make Everton his play thing
2) We receive substantial commercial backing

Until either happen, forget about a new stadium. It won't happen. A hotel won't fund the "world class" stadium we all crave. We'll remain at Goodison with continuous attempts to patch it up. Anything more is a pipedream.



You see, this is why these threads keep getting locked. Roundabouts and inevitable squabbling. I've explained this to you here and here

Feasibility is an ongoing process. Prices/technology change. As explained by our Chief Exec a few weeks ago.

But Danny. Its not a reason not to look at say Inter Milan and how they're doing it...

And Munich 1860. And why they're not happy with how they did it.


I just find the diatribes against the club (especially Elstone) unwarranted.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

But Danny. Its not a reason not to look at say Inter Milan and how they're doing it...

And Munich 1860. And why they're not happy with how they did it.


I just find the diatribes against the club (especially Elstone) unwarranted.

I don't understand?

 

[moyes_bringin_it_back]

I don't understand?

See some of the quotes on the previous page.

"Elstone's not interested" paraphrased kind of thing.

Course he is. And these "KEIOC" types need to get away from this kind of thing or statements like that. Why is it they're always seeming to conflict with the club like??????

Don't lock the thread what I mean.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

See some of the quotes on the previous page.

"Elstone's not interested" paraphrased kind of thing.

Course he is.

Don't lock the thread.

Of course, anything the club say is extensively scrutinised and criticised in any way possible to fit a certain agenda. It's tedious.

 

[moyes_bringin_it_back]

Of course, anything the club say is extensively scrutinised and criticised in any way possible to fit a certain agenda. It's tedious.

Exactly. But as you can see. My dialogue - is meant to try and change the tactics and mindset they've got....

Much better info and its heartening to know that KEIOC... are thinking about affordability (see previous thread in which I highlighted my annoyance with what was reported KEIOC had been saying at the shareholders meeting).

Its very very important that the message about working with the club on affordability, and affordable options is put out.

Certainly wasn't with the local press with those quotes. And it irks supporters like me.

Equally, we really want to see KEIOC if they're actually going to be going forward - actually working with the club, less ****ging off please. Kirkby's gone.


When I've talked about softly softly - KEIOC need to know that approaching something they may not agree with its not always appropriate to go like a "bull in a china shop". The Echo/Daily Post reports seemed to suggest they had.

Also. the club, shareholders, fans and the LCC.... all should be treated softly softly now by KEIOC.

Less stick. More carrot. That "affordability" quote in the original article read like someone stamping their feet because they couldn't get their own way..........

KEIOC should be attempting to improve their image, and a more softly softly approach would be better.

By all means keep the suggestions flowing and looking at the options.

Put them forward.

But less of the ****ging off of the club at the same time.

You're gonner have to work with those people.

Also think you should start developing a better relationship with Echo/Post ALONG with the club.

For a more unified message. As there is only so many times people will look at the Echo/Post websites and think "bloody hell" reading some of the quotes.

People may say "ooo not getting into bed with the people that run the club".

Thats their issue. Fact is KEIOC are going to have to work with the club even more if the stadium's going to be done.

And there is going to be need to compromise all round.

Sometime's I think KEIOC could learn, that there are times to be active and vocal and others to be passive. The "message" should have been at the shareholders meeting, these are merely ideas for the club to look at to get the ball rolling... even if they're dismissed, they're the first round of ideas.


Instead it got spun the wrong way (rightly? intentionally?)

KEIOC need to ensure the message is clear, and its a realistic message too, one that doesn't mean them and the club are conflicting publically. As more of this is (eventually) just going to piss the supporters off.

IMHO


Thanks Duckling for bringing some much needed info to the forum. Happier now have read your points.

CAN YOU PASS MINE ABOVE - onto KEIOC? cheers.

And Elstone blogging about "quality against quantity" is not to be thought of anything unusal.

Use the Inter Milan moving from 80k San Siro to 60k purpose built stadium in 2014 and expecting to treble revenue!

Munich 1860 wished they hadn't gone to a 70k Allainz arena and sharing. Unfit for purpose arena.


Elstone's saying what I'm thinking.... but Davek slaughtered him for it???!?!?!

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Exactly. But as you can see. My dialogue - is meant to try and change the tactics and mindset they've got....

I've been trying for years. I've learnt that any Everton employee in a senior position (especially Chief Executive) will always be targeted by a section of the fan base. It's almost a hobby for some. This can be aided by latching on to an almost 'opposition party'.

Until KEIOC stop trying to score points and going head to head with the club on every issue, theres going to be growing discontent towards them as highlighted on here.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Doesn't matter about Kirkby. KEIOC should stop dwelling on what you/they perceive as "past glories" or tactics that worked then. Those tactics are inappropriate now.

And I hope you pass on my comments on the last page Tom Hughes. About softly softly approach / carrot and stick.


Its gone. Kirkby is finished. End of.

And if Elstone is commenting about "quality versus quantity" its not an excuse to **** the club off...

because Inter Milan are doing it... and Munich 1860 wished they had.

Elstone's not saying anything unusual in a blog on the main site.

Apologies, I missed your post. I agree, and I think you'll find they have a different approach given the different scenario, as evidenced by meetings with the club to date. I can assure you any references to Kirkby are not regarding "past-glories" (which they don't consider as such in anycase) but simply lessons to be learnt, and let's face it three failures suggests there are plenty. Words are cheap, and we've had rousing speeches about "state of the art" stadia before. The hope is that Elstone is at least given the opportunity to conduct a stadium/club-led initiative...... as opposed to the third party led previous effort to give us the "quality" we need.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

The hope is that Elstone is at least given the opportunity to conduct a stadium/club-led initiative...... as opposed to the third party led previous effort to give us the "quality" we need.

That's idealistic though, isn't it?

A "third party led effort" (as you call it) is partly inevitable if you're reliant on commercial 'third party' financial backing.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Epitomises that theres only two ways we're going to get a new shiny stadium.

1) A billionaire decides to make Everton his play thing
2) We receive substantial commercial backing

Until either happen, forget about a new stadium. It won't happen. A hotel won't fund the "world class" stadium we all crave. We'll remain at Goodison with continuous attempts to patch it up. Anything more is a pipedream.



You see, this is why these threads keep getting locked. Roundabouts followed by the inevitable squabbling. I've explained this to you here and here

Feasibility is an ongoing process. Prices/technology change. As explained by our Chief Exec a few weeks ago.

In one of your "heres" you also insisted that you hadn't taken a few words out of context..... yet I think Mr Duckling showed clearly that you had! My contention is simple..... there is no previous comprehensive feasibility studies (as a shareholder I have requested them directly), and a previous CEO has admitted as much. I've been involved in feasibility studies for various projects from MOD contracts to major transport schemes, so do not need a lesson in how things can change..... However, I'd be very interested to hear what major leaps have been made in stadium design that would suddenly make GP's redevelopment viable now, yet impossible only last Summer.

Your analysis illustrates your depth of knowledge regarding stadium development/redevelopment..... there are many lesser clubs who have managed great things with there stadia without Billionaires..