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2023/24 Kevin Thelwell

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maccavennie said:
tbf mate, even if Beto was the only "buy now, pay later" deals on offer, does that mean you go out and buy him if he simply hasn't got the tools to do the job?

Doesn't matter if that's all that was available, this summer he becomes a very expensive mistake as he isn't worth anywhere near the amount we'll end up having to pay.
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Devil's advocate then - given last summer Calvert-Lewin had a couple of years worth of injuries that would have made Gbamin blush, if Beto was all that was available (and he showed up pretty well on all the scout data stuff you see posted everywhere), would the prudent choice have been to have said "nah, we'll just risk everything on Dom's fitness"?

I'm not sure it would. In fact I guarantee that this board would have been awash with posts about how Thelwell had criminally let the club down by not signing an alternative striker
 
toffeeblue9 said:
Devil's advocate then - given last summer Calvert-Lewin had a couple of years worth of injuries that would have made Gbamin blush, if Beto was all that was available (and he showed up pretty well on all the scout data stuff you see posted everywhere), would the prudent choice have been to have said "nah, we'll just risk everything on Dom's fitness"?

I'm not sure it would. In fact I guarantee that this board would have been awash with posts about how Thelwell had criminally let the club down by not signing an alternative striker
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…..a deal isn’t a good deal just because we get the player now and pay later. A deal isn’t a good deal because the player is young. The only good deals are for good players who have an effective impact on the team.

It’s a total nonsense to think that Beto was the only striker available on this planet last summer. Nobody is saying good footballers are easy to find at low prices but they’re out there and finding them is why the DoF is paid big bucks.
 
toffeeblue9 said:
Devil's advocate then - given last summer Calvert-Lewin had a couple of years worth of injuries that would have made Gbamin blush, if Beto was all that was available (and he showed up pretty well on all the scout data stuff you see posted everywhere), would the prudent choice have been to have said "nah, we'll just risk everything on Dom's fitness"?

I'm not sure it would. In fact I guarantee that this board would have been awash with posts about how Thelwell had criminally let the club down by not signing an alternative striker
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I think if we done a poll right now and the option at the start of last season was

A) sign Beto who will score 3 league goals all season but at the end of the season he'll cost 30m

B) don't sign Beto, save the money and get a fella from the Sunday League instead

I reckon most would choose B tbh.
 
maccavennie said:
I think if we done a poll right now and the option at the start of last season was

A) sign Beto who will score 3 league goals all season but at the end of the season he'll cost 30m

B) don't sign Beto, save the money and get a fella from the Sunday League instead

I reckon most would choose B tbh.
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Yeah, but that's purely based on hindsight

Go back to the original question I asked and what would you have said 12 months ago?
 
Eggs said:
…..a deal isn’t a good deal just because we get the player now and pay later. A deal isn’t a good deal because the player is young. The only good deals are for good players who have an effective impact on the team.

It’s a total nonsense to think that Beto was the only striker available on this planet last summer. Nobody is saying good footballers are easy to find at low prices but they’re out there and finding them is why the DoF is paid big bucks.
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Not "low prices". Literally zero money up front. If you think there's many players out there for that sort of deal, you should be doing his job.

I'm not advocating that Beto was a good deal, I'm saying that we needed a striker and the number of strikers available for a down payment of £0.00 was, by definition, tiny.
 

Eggs said:
…..a deal isn’t a good deal just because we get the player now and pay later. A deal isn’t a good deal because the player is young. The only good deals are for good players who have an effective impact on the team.

It’s a total nonsense to think that Beto was the only striker available on this planet last summer. Nobody is saying good footballers are easy to find at low prices but they’re out there and finding them is why the DoF is paid big bucks.
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Not sure how many are there that are considered Premier League standard that is £0 upfront though. We've probably also had to pay a bit extra for him to allow that privilege.

The perilous position we've been in doesn't help transfer strategy.
 
GrandOldTeam said:
It's hard to see how Beto who seems for all the world needs to play off the shoulder/space to run into would fit a Dyche team but then, look at Mateta at Palace. Terrible for ages and started banging them in.
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He’s missed a couple of absolute sitters this season which could have got him on a roll of good confidence. I think he’s better than he’s showed so far and hopefully he starts showing it next season if he’s still here.
 
GrandOldTeam said:
It's hard to see how Beto who seems for all the world needs to play off the shoulder/space to run into would fit a Dyche team but then, look at Mateta at Palace. Terrible for ages and started banging them in.
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There's a touch of Niasse about him if I'm being honest, but that's not to say he couldn't be effective in the right set up. Fast, strong, decent in the air and very aggressive. Just has a touch like a garage door sadly.
 

toffeeblue9 said:
Yeah, but that's purely based on hindsight

Go back to the original question I asked and what would you have said 12 months ago?
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Mate, I've wanted him to do well I really have. My favourite goal was his against Newcastle.

But if I'd gone back last year, actually watched some of his performances for Udinese which would have flagged up a player who is erratic with decision making, poor touch, constantly offside and generally doesn't seem to have a clue what his legs are doing, I'd have said "Yep, sign him up for 7m or as a premium because we aren't paying anything this season, let's pay 10m".

Not in this life or the next life is he worth anything over 10m and we've been stung big time and rhe worst thing about it is when we did sign him, Thelwell said it was a long term target who had all the attributes we were looking for...well if we were looking for a player with a big beaming smile then he absolutely nailed it.

I'm still hopeful he'll come good mate, I ain't giving up but let's be honest, it looks a dreadful bit of business from what we've all witnessed this season.
 
maccavennie said:
Mate, I've wanted him to do well I really have. My favourite goal was his against Newcastle.

But if I'd gone back last year, actually watched some of his performances for Udinese which would have flagged up a player who is erratic with decision making, poor touch, constantly offside and generally doesn't seem to have a clue what his legs are doing, I'd have said "Yep, sign him up for 7m or as a premium because we aren't paying anything this season, let's pay 10m".

Not in this life or the next life is he worth anything over 10m and we've been stung big time and rhe worst thing about it is when we did sign him, Thelwell said it was a long term target who had all the attributes we were looking for...well if we were looking for a player with a big beaming smile then he absolutely nailed it.

I'm still hopeful he'll come good mate, I ain't giving up but let's be honest, it looks a dreadful bit of business from what we've all witnessed this season.
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If I'm honest, I watched none of the lad live before he got here but YouTube had me convinced he was a good buy. The scout stat geeks all had stuff to back this up and I didn't have a problem at all with the idea of him coming. Flip side of that is that I knew from watching 2 mins of Niasse's "highlights" in Russia that the lad wasn't a footballer.

So it's been a real surprise to me that he's struggled as much as he has (I can't defend it, he's got some attributes and he's not yet a completely busted flush, but the signs aren't good).

I think it's difficult to look back at last summer and be as objective as you're being here though - 2 years of Dom being injured. We'd have had to rely on Maupay this season as backup and it was largely Dom's injuries in 22/23 that you could argue were the reason we got as close to the drop as we did. £25-30m is about the going rate for a mid level PL striker nowadays, so I wouldn't have said that the price tag caused my eyebrows to raise at all.

End of the day, he most certainly does not look like a £25m player based on what we've seen, not even close to it, but I still think that the context of our financial situation (and it would have been fair to assume back then that the ownership situation would have been resolved by now and with it the v severe financial restrictions) and our desperation for a striker last summer are enough to at the very least cut the guy some slack for doing the deal
 

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