2024/25 Kevin Thelwell

[oglop44]

It's been done to death by now but the Maupay deal was definitely done with 3-5-2 in mind. We played 3-5-2 for a good chunk of pre-season, Godfrey got injured early in the season and Lampard gave up on the formation completely. I still think Maupay was a terrible buy but he makes a lot more sense in that context.

 

[TrixyStevens]

I think it has ultimately failed because far too often we have had a model where the DoF and Manager aren't aligned at all. The places where you see success with the model are where they are aligned, mostly because the footballing structure is in a place where the manager just plays the style that the club and DoF dictate, with the players they sign for you.

This should be it in a nutshell, in any other capacity it would be the same; owner of business has plan/design, director dictates plan to manager. As you say TS the model works ‘where they are aligned’.

 

[Zatara]

Based off the players supposedly identified and that we were ‘in for’ I think he might be able to do a good job at a club that can spend a modest amount of money like every other premier league club

He hasn’t done a good job though. Buying Maupay is the real wtf moment for me because there was clearly no plan on how to use him in the team… he’s not a terrible player as seen everywhere else he’s played but he never fit any managers plans at all.

I think the big Tim I and N’Diaye deals are superb given the position we’ve been in and also Beto would get goals if he was played instead of dcl so I’m not blaming him for that either.

Dyche and PSR have been the bigger issues for me

It's been done to death by now but the Maupay deal was definitely done with 3-5-2 in mind. We played 3-5-2 for a good chunk of pre-season, Godfrey got injured early in the season and Lampard gave up on the formation completely. I still think Maupay was a terrible buy but he makes a lot more sense in that context.

Maupay wasnt signed by Thelwell.

Apparently signed by Kenwright / Moshiri per @The Bobble

 

[Gilbert..]

I think its unfair to look only at the in's, and ignore the players that we have been strongly linked with, especially those that we know went close. That is also the same with Brands.

Quite clearly there has been two issues, firstly the lack of funds, and secondly the internal meddling stopping him having full control over his job.

Clearly he will have made mistakes along the way, but you can't attribute all off those to him, especially when we've got that desperate over the last few years we've needed any heads just to bulk up the squad.

I think at the end of January, we should have a clearer view, assuming funds are available and he has full control over how those funds are spent.

Window shopping doesnt count for anything though if you havent the funds. If i walk past a ferrari showroom and look at something i cant afford and then walk down the road and buy a clapped out banger that the exhaust falls off in the first drive it still makes me a bit of a fool.
The first time i saw Beto in an Everton shirt within 10 minutes i thought...hmmm ok. He looks like he's just met a football for the first time in his life. But give him time.
Now that time has passed my initial reaction hasnt changed much. I then start thinking as a DOF wtf did you see when looking at this lad. Did you even see him. Did Udinese send you a video of someone else and you bought it.
I Personally have a problem with any DOF who rubber stamps the signing of a player who looks like he's put his boots on back to front.
He cost more than Rory Delap

 

[chippy1722]

I think its unfair to look only at the in's, and ignore the players that we have been strongly linked with, especially those that we know went close. That is also the same with Brands.

Quite clearly there has been two issues, firstly the lack of funds, and secondly the internal meddling stopping him having full control over his job.

Clearly he will have made mistakes along the way, but you can't attribute all off those to him, especially when we've got that desperate over the last few years we've needed any heads just to bulk up the squad.

I think at the end of January, we should have a clearer view, assuming funds are available and he has full control over how those funds are spent.

Every single in and out should be attributed to him. Even more so when we had so little to spend and he wasted it. The sooner he goes the better.

 

[Blue peter]

Based off the players supposedly identified and that we were ‘in for’ I think he might be able to do a good job at a club that can spend a modest amount of money like every other premier league club

He hasn’t done a good job though. Buying Maupay is the real wtf moment for me because there was clearly no plan on how to use him in the team… he’s not a terrible player as seen everywhere else he’s played but he never fit any managers plans at all.

I think the big Tim I and N’Diaye deals are superb given the position we’ve been in and also Beto would get goals if he was played instead of dcl so I’m not blaming him for that either.

Dyche and PSR have been the bigger issues for me

This is where I’m at.

It’s hard to tell what kind of job he has done, as a chunk of his role will involve the less visible aspects to the fan base outside of the first team’s results. However Dyche I think is a bigger issue for the club (certainly this year).

It could be argued that DoF and first team coach roles go hand in hand, but getting rid of both would be too risky, remove the bigger, more visible issue which in my opinion is Dyche (as long as there is a sound replacement ready to go).

If KT needs to be removed, he can be at a later date.

 

[Blue peter]

Not saying he’s done an amazing job but I think binning him and Dyche off at the same time would be a tad risky. That’s a whole lot of change in one go.

At the same we’d have a new owner and new board, agreed…..far too risky

 

[sam17]

Window shopping doesnt count for anything though if you havent the funds. If i walk past a ferrari showroom and look at something i cant afford and then walk down the road and buy a clapped out banger that the exhaust falls off in the first drive it still makes me a bit of a fool.
The first time i saw Beto in an Everton shirt within 10 minutes i thought...hmmm ok. He looks like he's just met a football for the first time in his life. But give him time.
Now that time has passed my initial reaction hasnt changed much. I then start thinking as a DOF wtf did you see when looking at this lad. Did you even see him. Did Udinese send you a video of someone else and you bought it.
I Personally have a problem with any DOF who rubber stamps the signing of a player who looks like he's put his boots on back to front.
He cost more than Rory Delap

That's my point though.

He hasn't gone down a rabbit hole of looking for players who meet his requirements when there was never any money or an intention to buy.

Clearly there has been issues above which have caused the problems. Whether that be funds promised and never arrived, decisions to use specific agents, or just a desire from the owner to pick his own.

 

[sam17]

Every single in and out should be attributed to him. Even more so when we had so little to spend and he wasted it. The sooner he goes the better.

Out of interest, which out's have been poor business?

And for in's, do you not beleive that the owner and chairman made their own decisions on purchases?

 

[Gilbert..]

That's my point though.

He hasn't gone down a rabbit hole of looking for players who meet his requirements when there was never any money or an intention to buy.

Clearly there has been issues above which have caused the problems. Whether that be funds promised and never arrived, decisions to use specific agents, or just a desire from the owner to pick his own.

I Am looking at the ins though. I dont think there is any justification signing Beto. Regardless of how little funds. He's terrible. Why bring a terrible player. Even if he was free.
Bit like Brands and Doucoure.
Absolutely shocking technique players. If you want to see why Everton are such a poor footballing side just look at the recruitment. I wouldnt have brought those two to the club if someone payed us to take them. Its to the detriment of this club. the fact our DOF are agreeing to them scares me. Never rated brands. Not really rating thelwell. Nothing in their CVs either tell me they were to be put in a postion of placing players on the pitch for this club.

 

[sam17]

I Am looking at the ins though. I dont think there is any justification signing Beto. Regardless of how little funds. He's terrible. Why bring a terrible player. Even if he was free.
Bit like Brands and Doucoure.
Absolutely shocking technique players. If you want to see why Everton are such a poor footballing side just look at the recruitment. I wouldnt have brought those two to the club if someone payed us to take them. Its to the detriment of this club. the fact our DOF are agreeing to them scares me. Never rated brands. Not really rating thelwell. Nothing in their CVs either tell me they were to be put in a postion of placing players on the pitch for this club.

Beto is a horrendous player, but we're far from the first club to have been duped by a striker from Seria A for big money, or a big reputation.

Scamacca - West Ham
Zirkzee - Man Utd
Lukaku coming back to Chelsea / Higuain / Morata (though he wasn't that bad, just gone on to have a batter career elsewhere)
Jovetic - Man City

Not a justificaton for Thelwell, more an observation of the risk of buying from Seria A.

 

[smileychap]

Beto is a horrendous player, but we're far from the first club to have been duped by a striker from Seria A for big money, or a big reputation.

Scamacca - West Ham
Zirkzee - Man Utd
Lukaku coming back to Chelsea / Higuain / Morata (though he wasn't that bad, just gone on to have a batter career elsewhere)
Jovetic - Man City

Not a justificaton for Thelwell, more an observation of the risk of buying from Seria A.

+ Keane

 

[Gilbert..]

Beto is a horrendous player, but we're far from the first club to have been duped by a striker from Seria A for big money, or a big reputation.

Scamacca - West Ham
Zirkzee - Man Utd
Lukaku coming back to Chelsea / Higuain / Morata (though he wasn't that bad, just gone on to have a batter career elsewhere)
Jovetic - Man City

Not a justificaton for Thelwell, more an observation of the risk of buying from Seria A.

Its not just Beto. Im trying to find a justification in thelwell and im struggling. We're still playing a 40yr at fullback. We've needed a decent fullback for a while. In his time here bournemouth have bought a fullback in kerkez who looks great. We in the same time frame paid more for jake obrien who hasnt even left the bench.

I dont think its an easy job. But it doesnt excuse what im seeing as some real head scratching calls.

 

[smileychap]

I see three-ish scenarios:

1. Thelwell and Dyche go now, in order to save funds for new manager to operate. Since any new manager is likely to be wholly unaligned to Thelwell anyway (how many manager's ago was he signed?) what's the point in keeping him if Dyche goes?

2. Thelwell and Dyche go post Jan if/when Dyche is fired
This is in many ways the weakest of the the three options, as in theory they spank Jan cash unwisely and limit the room for manouvre in terms of time and cash we have in Mar/April (or whenever) for whatever lifeboat of a manager we bring in then.

3. Thelwell and Dyche go end of season
This I don't mind as an option as it assumes we stay up and they can jog on no fuss.

With 2) being wholly unfavourable in just about any circumstance it really comes down to the confidence we have in Dyche and Kev right now.

I think they can keep us up - I also don't know who in the squad there is to get more of a tune from. Our RB's cannot run [any faster/more]. Myko's a good lad and a trier as per Doucs, DCL is Mr 50%, Harrison and McNeil lack quality. Beto lacks confidence. We need more from Lindstrom, Garner, Tim I, Mangala and Patterson but we need Dyche to play them.

But if the sentiment towards Dyche is he cannot do that, we need to be brave and go for 1) NOW.

 

[pfim]

Its not just Beto. Im trying to find a justification in thelwell and im struggling. We're still playing a 40yr at fullback. We've needed a decent fullback for a while. In his time here bournemouth have bought a fullback in kerkez who looks great. We in the same time frame paid more for jake obrien who hasnt even left the bench.

I dont think its an easy job. But it doesnt excuse what im seeing as some real head scratching calls.

O'Brien seems like another player bought above his head though, given the relationship with Textor.

Just repeating what I've said before, tough to really judge the job he has done given the circumstances. Good or bad.