2017/18 Kieran Dowell

[davek]

Definitely not disagreeing with you so think it's worth looking at a slightly different angle. Dowell is clearly a clever and talented player. Is he top draw and able to make it in a top six club? still big question marks on that one. The challenge to Dowell has surfaced at Forest, with drifting in and out of games etc. So while we would definitely have him in the squad next season, how many people would want him starting over a Siggy or Wilshire or someone who has and will rip up trees at the highest level. Dowell still seems a couple of seasons away from that and while I detest Wilshire, he is in a different league to our Keiran (at the moment). Our most talented kids have had a chance this season and fans have given them god knows how much stick. Same situation - Kenny over Coleman? DCL over Tosun? Garbutt over Baines? So, we can have him back, but at what expense?

I think he proved himself at Forest first half of the season and now he's lacking motivation at that level. He needs to be around better quality players who have better movement for him to service and can bring him into the game more too.

It's simple enough if we wish to find out if he has it or not at PL level: play him in PL games. If that ball bag Koeman didn't have his mind set on buying a team then we'd have found out this season the answer to that question. We've wasted a season with Dowell, time to find out if he's the real deal.

 

[BlueStevie35]

Where would he fit in though Dave?, he's not getting in over Walcott or Sigurdsson and we would likely bring in a left sided winger to alternate with Bolasie. At best he'll be a 15-20 min cameo and a League Cup starter unless we had an injury crisis

 

[Barnfred 55]

Where would he fit in though Dave?, he's not getting in over Walcott or Sigurdsson and we would likely bring in a left sided winger to alternate with Bolasie. At best he'll be a 15-20 min cameo and a League Cup starter unless we had an injury crisis

15/20 minute cameos plus the odd game are what he needs at the moment. He eill get plenty of game time with squad rotation and niggles/imjuries. The important thing is that he is playing and training with better quality players.

 

[APN_EFC]

This is a bellwether case for us. If they dont offer a player like Dowell a new contract and take him back this summer then we start to understand for sure that the club has spun out of control and all football affairs are anarchic and there is no plan. This is why you have academies. Unearth rare talent and develop it to a point where you put them into the first team and allow them to take their chance.

Imagine the mindset of other youngsters with talent coming through looking on at someone like Dowell being treated like this when utter trash are guaranteed first team starts. If the club continue along this line paying big fees for players who aren't better than what we produce then we're n a slippery slope away from who we are as a club. Our transfer policy has sickened most people and any continued denial of handing Dowell his chance and even selling him will deepen the crisis of governance at the club in the fans eyes.

I agree with this .Let's assume that next year, success should be measured by being in 6th place, or at least competing for the 5,6,7 positions, realistically, and not 10 pts off 6th. In that case, why would we not take the opportunity to develop the special 6 young players. It's definitely a bell weather test, because we have to at the very least talk about that group, have a strategy for them, and maybe, for instance send Dowell & DCL to the same club on loan, or Kenny & davies, and Lookman & Vlasic - send them off in pairs so they develop friendship and understanding. Of course, I don't know as Harry73 asked what the development would be if the 6 of them are on the subs bench constantly, but thepoint is at themoment we don't even have a plan for them.
It should be taken seriously that they were U20 WC winners plus Davies & Vlasic = great talent. They along with Pickford should be the core.

One problem is that young players don't have the patience they used to have , and feel like at 20 they should already be in a first team. However, if our DOF (new one) and our manager (a better one) talk to them and motivate them to stay on board, its not difficult to convince a young man that 5 successful years with us will either make Everton a CL club, or will get them a move to a big rich club at the age of 25/26, which is still fine

I think particularly as Dowell, kenny, Davies are blues, and Vlasic, Lookman and DCL are not going to get regular football at a CL club yet, it's an easy sell, surely?! Why not also use Dowell as a 'drifting winger'?

in the future why can't our front 4 be Lookman, Vlasic, Dowell and DCL? there's pace and skill in that

 

[davek]

I agree with this .Let's assume that next year, success should be measured by being in 6th place, or at least competing for the 5,6,7 positions, realistically, and not 10 pts off 6th. In that case, why would we not take the opportunity to develop the special 6 young players. It's definitely a bell weather test, because we have to at the very least talk about that group, have a strategy for them, and maybe, for instance send Dowell & DCL to the same club on loan, or Kenny & davies, and Lookman & Vlasic - send them off in pairs so they develop friendship and understanding. Of course, I don't know as Harry73 asked what the development would be if the 6 of them are on the subs bench constantly, but thepoint is at themoment we don't even have a plan for them.
It should be taken seriously that they were U20 WC winners plus Davies & Vlasic = great talent. They along with Pickford should be the core.

One problem is that young players don't have the patience they used to have , and feel like at 20 they should already be in a first team. However, if our DOF (new one) and our manager (a better one) talk to them and motivate them to stay on board, its not difficult to convince a young man that 5 successful years with us will either make Everton a CL club, or will get them a move to a big rich club at the age of 25/26, which is still fine

I think particularly as Dowell, kenny, Davies are blues, and Vlasic, Lookman and DCL are not going to get regular football at a CL club yet, it's an easy sell, surely?! Why not also use Dowell as a 'drifting winger'?

in the future why can't our front 4 be Lookman, Vlasic, Dowell and DCL? there's pace and skill in that

The new manager will be key. Anyone like Koeman again will finish us in terms of developing players. Another chequebook manager is not desirable....spend big on one or two players, yes, but not a general policy of buying to fill up first team spots.

 

[MikeH72]

He's entering the last year of his contract but the pointless extension for Jagielka couldn't come out quick enough after a handful of decent games last season could it?

 

[Raino85]

Where would he fit in though Dave?, he's not getting in over Walcott or Sigurdsson and we would likely bring in a left sided winger to alternate with Bolasie. At best he'll be a 15-20 min cameo and a League Cup starter unless we had an injury crisis

Thats fine surely though at this stage of his career? Back up for Sigurdssson would get you 20 ish games in a season.
Why getting europa league is important i think, more games for this group of kids

 

[BlueStevie35]

Thats fine surely though at this stage of his career? Back up for Sigurdssson would get you 20 ish games in a season.
Why getting europa league is important i think, more games for this group of kids

Exactly, he's just not as ready as some think to be actually starting games in the top flight as shown by being in and out of a Forest side that is sitting 16th in the most competitive League in the country but has a squad that should be well in the play off hunt

 

[Philw]

I think he proved himself at Forest first half of the season and now he's lacking motivation at that level.

No offence, but if he's lost motivation after half a season there then we are better off without him.

 

[Eggs]

I think he proved himself at Forest first half of the season and now he's lacking motivation at that level. He needs to be around better quality players who have better movement for him to service and can bring him into the game more too.

It's simple enough if we wish to find out if he has it or not at PL level: play him in PL games. If that ball bag Koeman didn't have his mind set on buying a team then we'd have found out this season the answer to that question. We've wasted a season with Dowell, time to find out if he's the real deal.

..I doubt very much that he lacks motivation, players will have form dips during a season and let’s not forget this is his first experience of open age football. The fact that he’s the clubs leading scorer and possibly player of the season says a lot.

Players with a bit of magic are at a premium, midfielders who score goals are at a premium. Dowell is both. I’m sure he would’ve improved our team playing right side before Walcott arrived. He already had a well defined partnership with Kenny and would have added goals and creativity when we lacked both.

I don’t know if this lad will be a top flight star but I think he has a chance. Dowell is an asset and I think it would be wise to get him on a longer contract if the player is prepared to commit to Everton. If not, we need to try and transfer him with a sell on clause.

 

[Rugby Toffee]

Are we in danger again in hyping up another potential decent player. Can't help feeling the pressure to exceed expectations have in the past damaged our talented young players.

 

[Harry73]

I think he proved himself at Forest first half of the season and now he's lacking motivation at that level. He needs to be around better quality players who have better movement for him to service and can bring him into the game more too.

It's simple enough if we wish to find out if he has it or not at PL level: play him in PL games. If that ball bag Koeman didn't have his mind set on buying a team then we'd have found out this season the answer to that question. We've wasted a season with Dowell, time to find out if he's the real deal.

Disagree slightly in that I think he needed a loan but be good to see if he will cut it.

 

[Barnfred 55]

No offence, but if he's lost motivation after half a season there then we are better off without him.

But I don't think that is the case mate in fairness to the lad. Just one posters take on it to justify his view that he shouldn't have gone on loan to the championship in the first place as it's below his level.

He's gone from 20 odd games a season for the U23s to week in week out in the hurly burly of the championship. He was playing 90 mins of almost every game without a break. He was still only 19/20 and the need to rest younger players doesn't just apply to premier games. The kid was basically knackered, I'm not surprised his form dropped. Plus he was playing under a different manager who changed his role in the team so he wasn't as productive.

In hindsight, I think the loan has done him more good than harm and I saw a better player when I watched the U21s last weekend. He's ready for a place in the first team squad next season IMO and also a new contract in the summer.

 

[blueblue]

I think he proved himself at Forest first half of the season and now he's lacking motivation at that level. He needs to be around better quality players who have better movement for him to service and can bring him into the game more too.

It's simple enough if we wish to find out if he has it or not at PL level: play him in PL games. If that ball bag Koeman didn't have his mind set on buying a team then we'd have found out this season the answer to that question. We've wasted a season with Dowell, time to find out if he's the real deal.

I think you are entirely wrong about the season being wasted on young Dowell. This season could be the making of him and was so badly needed.

He clearly was not ready to play premiership football this season and given the way our season has gone isn't it lucky that he wasn't asked to play in a struggling team.

He will start with the first team squad next season and will be given a chance to prove himself... and I am saying this regardless of who the manager is.

His football ability is not in question , his work rate is and his ability to stay involved in a game over the ninety minutes.
How good is he ?.....potential to be a very good player because of vision and skill.
Would he get into a top six team at the moment ?... not even close to it.
Will he get into the Everton team next season ?... certainly depends on who is manager but far far from certain no matter who is in charge.

 

[Goat]

I think you are entirely wrong about the season being wasted on young Dowell. This season could be the making of him and was so badly needed.

He clearly was not ready to play premiership football this season and given the way our season has gone isn't it lucky that he wasn't asked to play in a struggling team.

He will start with the first team squad next season and will be given a chance to prove himself... and I am saying this regardless of who the manager is.

His football ability is not in question , his work rate is and his ability to stay involved in a game over the ninety minutes.
How good is he ?.....potential to be a very good player because of vision and skill.
Would he get into a top six team at the moment ?... not even close to it.
Will he get into the Everton team next season ?... certainly depends on who is manager but far far from certain no matter who is in charge.

He will be sold in the Summer.