Kirkby Move - Yes or No?

Yes or No to the move to Kirkby?


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That point you make about comparing the Kirkby population to the capacity of the stadium is irrelevent. What the hell has Kirkby's population got to do with the capacity?

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the relevance is that a town with a population of about 42,000 or so will be expected to have an infrastructure appropriate to its needs. those needs would not be expected to include the occasional influx & egress of tens of thousands of people, greater even than the town's population.
 
the relevance is that a town with a population of about 42,000 or so will be expected to have an infrastructure appropriate to its needs. those needs would not be expected to include the occasional influx & egress of tens of thousands of people, greater even than the town's population.

Kirkbys population is irrelevent, its like saying Walton only has a population of 40,000 so how can it handle Everton matches with 35-40,000 coming into it every fortnight or so, it might not have occurred to you but Kirkby is VERY close to a certain city called er..Liverpool, in fact its next door, the park and ride facilities at Aintree racecourse (Sefton) and Long Lane (Liverpool) and possibly Gillmoss (Liverpool) that will be utilised by the rs for their new ground will also be used by us as well as the parking facilities that Knowsley itself will offer, its a weak argument to use the population of Kirkby and its infrastructure as an argument against as IT IS NEXT DOOR TO THE CITY OF LIVERPOOL IT IS JOINED ON TO THE CITY OF LIVERPOOL AND IS NOT CUT OFF MILES AWAY IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE WITH ITS LITTLE 42,000 POPULATION - if it was miles away your argument about infrastructure and population may have held some weight but its transport and infrastructure is as much an integrated part of Liverpool as anywhere within the city and thus bus routes, park and ride/walk, taxi capability, rail and motorway access are just as good if not better than anywhere within the city. You don't seem to me to sound like someone who knows this area very well.
 
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It's vastly different because Walton is 2 miles from the city centre in the Liverpool District and people travel from all different directions to get there.

I am not very good at explanations but the majority of fans will be travelling North or East to Kirkby from the Liverpool District, Wirral and North Wales.

According to the transport plans, it states that 13% of season ticket holders will travel South or West to Kirkby.

This alone should tell you that Kirkby isn't in the right location when 87% of season ticket holders have to travel in the same direction to get to the stadium.
 
resorting to to block caps to prove how right you are, eh? that always convinces me, mr demon!
no doubt you are right & kirkby does in fact have the infrastructure to handle the best part of 120,000 people, what incredible foresight on the part of the town planners.
 

what % of kirkby residents will be at the match? and in the associated businesses before and after kick off?

why will dispersal rate be any different to goodison currently?

lets say sell out 50k, where is the other 90k from?
 
i understand the plan is for the capacity to be expandable to 70,000, the population of kirkby is about 42,000 & i presume a few thousand people from neighbouring areas may be using the new retail facilities & perhaps other facilities & businesses. so it seems quite reasonable for the infrastructure to be planned for a population of 42,000 + 70,000 supporters + X,000 "others", in other words perhaps up to 120,000 in kirkby at the same time.
 
isnt it a little unfair to suggest that as and when the 50k is expanded to 70k that changes to the area, specific to parking and transport, will not have been altered/upgraded to accommodate this increase?
 

my mistake then. so the infrastructure is adequate for about 2.5 time the town's population, but not for 3 times the town's population. won't that mean the marginal cost of increasing the capacity could be prohibitive?
 
transportation is refined all the time, from new bus routes, to increased road capacity, to more or fewer train services.

the stadium is a small part of a very big jigsaw.

there will be an element of trial and error involved.

if there are problems they will need to be addressed.

hopefully the inevitable problems will be faced without..."told you so"..."knew we shouldnt have moved"..."never had this problem at goodison"....."kenwright and wyness couldnt deliver a speech let alone a decent stadium and facilities"...

and other such mindless backbiting at the first sight of a hurdle.
 
the risks are far greater than that, imo. if it's too much hassle people just won't go, or will pick & choose their games. as one of the factors for people purchasing season tickets will have been removed this really could be bad news for the club.
 
the risks are far greater than that, imo. if it's too much hassle people just won't go, or will pick & choose their games. as one of the factors for people purchasing season tickets will have been removed this really could be bad news for the club.

thats a bit thin.

how easy is getting to goodison currently? train into lime street then trying to get onto an always packed bus that zig zags its way to goodison stopping every 2 minutes.

a 10 minute journey becomes a 25 minute journey and the shocks on the buses are [Poor language removed] - every bump in the road.

anyway. driving in isnt so bad, numerous places to park for a fiver, it just means no beer :(

so to the 'hassle'

i despise obstructed views, it really gets on my tits.
being over six feet tall, i despise toilets with ceilings too low, that cant handle the amount of supporters needing a piss. (add to that being able to see to find your zipper because of the density of smoke currently)
i despise not being able to get a (hot) pie and a (cold) pint and get charged hollywood prices for the privilege.
as it is now, goodison is a squeeze, the modern human being is taller and broader than 20 years ago, and 40 years ago etc.

everton still get an average of 35k with all these hassles.

on balance, i know which i already prefer.
 
A key criterion governing optimum location concerns the spectator expectations when coming to a sports event. Within a stadium it is atmosphere and experience which are paramount, hence the ‘build it to fill it’ maxim. The quality of this experience can only be gained from the diversity offered by an in-town location and cannot be manufactured by the on-site facilities in an out-of-town location.

The holistic multiplicity of facilities are defined as those which are convenient to stadiums, especially restaurants and bars, accommodation, entertainment, general retailing and other ancillary attractions such as tourist sites, art and culture venues.

Tesco indicate that the Kirkby site provides a viable location and development opportunity which has been determined against a number of defining criteria including operational viability; corporate governance involving the setting up of a stadium company linked to an operating company, naming rights, and private sector partners who will absorb a substantial portion of the development risk.

There is a view that the Kirkby proposal is flawed and based on a case of having a site which is looking for a use whereas the rational approach would be to determine the use characteristics of the proposed development and identify the best site to suit the determining criteria.

From a planning perspective a sports stadium proposed in an in-town location needs to have regard to the sustainability of the development; infrastructure provision to support the development including potential traffic generation and congestion; vitality and viability of the city centre; benefits derived in the public interest; evidence of the sequential approach; environmental quality and attractiveness of the urban form in the context of the locality.

There is a strong economic, cultural and social argument for a Liverpool based stadium which will yield greater benefit for sports in Merseyside. The synergies offered by the in-town location including the pre and post game activities and the holistic city experience surrounding the sporting event will substantially outweigh those offered by a stadium sited in an out-of-town location. In this regard there is a perception that out-of-town stadiums are soulless places which invariably have inadequate infrastructure and service provision.

Planning policies indicate the need to consider in-town locations and reinforce the need to regenerate urban areas and promote sustainable developments. In this context

The evidence base drawn from other cities such as Cardiff supports the view that benefits will accrue to the end users, sports fans and the community; and that multipliers will result for businesses including hotels, pubs and restaurants in the in-town location.

In the US market the stadiums which moved out of the cities have faced major financial challenges as a result of reduced attendances and many are now moving back to city centre locations as a consequence.

A stadium in Liverpool offers the capacity to act as an economic regenerator for the Everton, the city region as a whole and contribute to the economy.

A stadium located at Kirkby is expected to be largely car dominated and will not be user friendly to pedestrians or cyclists which is contrary to the sustainable agenda of reducing car usage. Consideration of a sustainable transport approach must be a priority in the decision making process concerning a development of this size.

The Liverpool option is much more tourist friendly with greater potential spend in hotels, restaurants, pubs and clubs, and more sponsorship and VIP opportunities. In terms of potential usage/patronage, support infrastructure, financial stability/viability, and private sector commitment, Scotland Road is perceived to be an optimum location for a stadium whereas Kirkby will be a stand alone destination offering which runs the risk of being poorly supported for most of the year.

The case for the stadium in Liverpool cannot be sold as a single speculative venture. Instead it needs to be carefully articulated into the business case for the city and sold as a key initiative to unlock the need for more imaginative and integrated decision making on the infrastructure commitment for the city. This way the stadium assumes a much more important strategic role to unlock inertia, create critical mass, lever infrastructure investment and benefit the public interest and generate social and economic spin off for the city.

An in-town location for the stadium will provide additional synergy in creating ‘Destination Liverpool’. The branding of Liverpool as a tourism-leisure-sporting destination will bring enormous economic benefits and generate multiplier effects. Investment in product including infrastructure will generate greater capital return if targeted to Liverpool. Consequently a Liverpool based stadium is seen to offer the potential of delivering greater benefits/returns compared to a Kirkby based stadium which does not have the product.

Successful stadiums are those that engaged the local communities in a full and frequent capacity. The sustainability of an out-of-town stadium at the Kirkby is a key issue with many concerned that we could have another Millennium Dome whereby financial realities are distorted by political intent (in this case Knowsley’s Labour party).
 
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