Lions and donkeys: 10 big myths about World War One debunked

[johnnydawg68]

Baffling. Imperialism did undoubtedly play a part though. Austria were struggling, hence why they started venturing into the Balkans. The Ottoman empire was on the brink of collapse as well, so there was squabbling over the entrails of that, with Germany particularly keen to grab a slice of imperial glory to match their economic might.

To be honest though, it all seems a lot like the ruling classes looking out for their egos. Russia largely went to war in a desperate bid to stave off a revolution, but also had their pride battered by the Japanese at the turn of the century. The French were piqued over Germany pinching some of their territory after the Franco Prussian war. Germany wanted to be respected politically as they were economically (hence why they embarked on a naval building battle with Britain). The Austrians wanted to seem important and not like Germany's poodle.

You get the sense that we only really entered the thing because we'd promised France we would, and that Germany insisted on attacking France by first invading neutral Belgium.

As strange as it sounds, that's it. The system of formalized "Alliances" meant to protect Europe from going to war, actually caused it.

None of those countries wanted a war with each other. The greatest f up in history.

By the way, as much as one hates to say it, you know what is the biggest lesson drawn from WWI that still haunts us today?

Prize for anyone who gets this right.

 

[SpeedEFC]

You could make an argument that Germany kind of defeated itself though, by making the US enter it. There is little doubt their millions of extra troop/kit swung the balance in 1917.

If people dont know the story, basically, a lot of the US public were against them joining for tons of reasons. Then, in 1917, the germans invited Mexico to be an ally, offering them cash, plus help getting parts of the US back into Mexico. The Brits intercepted the telegraph, gave it to the US, and bingo!

A bit of an own goal really!

Yeah that along with the unrestricted submarine warfare around the British Isles forced the US into the war, it was why you saw the Germans have one last throw of the dice with the Ludendorf offensive in 1917. They knew that once the Americans (nicknamed doughboys by the other Allies) were trained up and ready to fight the war was as good as over since their population was starving due to the Royal Navy blockade. If they could manage to break the stalemate long enough to force through a peace treaty they might have got out of WW1 with a favourable peace deal.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You could make an argument that Germany kind of defeated itself though, by making the US enter it. There is little doubt their millions of extra troop/kit swung the balance in 1917.

If people dont know the story, basically, a lot of the US public were against them joining for tons of reasons. Then, in 1917, the germans invited Mexico to be an ally, offering them cash, plus help getting parts of the US back into Mexico. The Brits intercepted the telegraph, gave it to the US, and bingo!

A bit of an own goal really!

Think I'm right in saying that at the time there were also an awful lot of German ex-pats in the US, so it was far from certain that public opinion in America would side with the Allies.

Also find it a bit odd that people say we won. I mean things could have been worse, but losing that many men, bankrupting our economy and sewing the seeds for both the disintegration of the empire and for WW2 hardly seems worthy of celebration to me. The whole thing kinda signaled the end of Europe as the dominant continent.

 

[Allezfan]

The daft thing was Wilhelm was a grandson of Queen Victoria (or some such). Tsar Nicholas was also a cousin or something. Pretty much the whole sorry lot were part of the same family. I think I'm right in saying that a few weeks before it all kicked off, Wilhelm was racing his boat at Cowes ffs.

Wilhem and Joseph were both officers in the british army, I believe.

In fact I think if queen victoria had died a few years earlier, wilhelm would have become heir to the throne or soemthing.

 

[johnnydawg68]

I didnt know that. Shows what power films have I guess. And why Americans think they broke the Enigma code, not us!!

We did. We're just willing to give you credit for it.





KIDDING

 

[Bruce Wayne]

As strange as it sounds, that's it. The system of formalized "Alliances" meant to protect Europe from going to war, actually caused it.

None of those countries wanted a war with each other. The greatest f up in history.

By the way, as much as one hates to say it, you know what is the biggest lesson drawn from WWI that still haunts us today?

Prize for anyone who gets this right.

Many I suspect, but the most relevant for today (for me) is that there are often troubles afoot when you have one superpower declining and another about to take its place.

For Britain back then read America today. For Germany back then read China today. For France back then read Japan today. Hopefully diplomacy has come on since then.

 

[roydo]

Yeah that along with the unrestricted submarine warfare around the British Isles forced the US into the war, it was why you saw the Germans have one last throw of the dice with the Ludendorf offensive in 1917. They knew that once the Americans (nicknamed doughboys by the other Allies) were trained up and ready to fight the war was as good as over since their population was starving due to the Royal Navy blockade. If they could manage to break the stalemate long enough to force through a peace treaty they might have got out of WW1 with a favourable peace deal.

Yep. All linked up. I have learnt more about WW1 from GOT than anywhere else!

 

[johnnydawg68]

Think I'm right in saying that at the time there were also an awful lot of German ex-pats in the US, so it was far from certain that public opinion in America would side with the Allies.

Also find it a bit odd that people say we won. I mean things could have been worse, but losing that many men, bankrupting our economy and sewing the seeds for both the disintegration of the empire and for WW2 hardly seems worthy of celebration to me. The whole thing kinda signaled the end of Europe as the dominant continent.

From a cultural perspective, WWI broke the backs of the ruling landed aristocracy and heralding a sea change in right for women and workers, so in that sense yes.

One of my graduate history professors always told us "Centuries don't end on December 31st of xx99...the 18th century didn't end until 1919".

 

[Kurt.]

I've got one about the Zulu war. the majority of the men who fought at rouke's drift were English and not welsh like in the film Zulu. at the time of the battle they were still the 2nd Warwickshire regiment and not the south wales borderers.

I think that was because the english were seen as expendable to the Welsh...

 

[tsubaki]

The daft thing was Wilhelm was a grandson of Queen Victoria (or some such). Tsar Nicholas was also a cousin or something. Pretty much the whole sorry lot were part of the same family. I think I'm right in saying that a few weeks before it all kicked off, Wilhelm was racing his boat at Cowes ffs.

Wilhelm was one of the great ****wits of world history though.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Wilhem and Joseph were both officers in the british army, I believe.

In fact I think if queen victoria had died a few years earlier, wilhelm would have become heir to the throne or soemthing.

Aye, something like that. Another ironic thing is that (as I understand it), Ferdinand was largely a reserved voice in the Austrian hierarchy. He'd often temper the gunho attitudes of his peers. So shooting him removed that restraint and led almost inevitably to Austria seeking revenge on Serbia.

 

[Garrick]

Think I'm right in saying that at the time there were also an awful lot of German ex-pats in the US, so it was far from certain that public opinion in America would side with the Allies.

Also find it a bit odd that people say we won. I mean things could have been worse, but losing that many men, bankrupting our economy and sewing the seeds for both the disintegration of the empire and for WW2 hardly seems worthy of celebration to me. The whole thing kinda signaled the end of Europe as the dominant continent.

Popular American sentiment was for neutrality at the time, even though Woodrow Wilson was interested in helping the Allies. The Zimmermann Telegraph led to a sea change in views.

Huge miscalculation in my opinion, especially considering after any sort of buildup (pre-WW1 US military was extremely weak), we would have steamrolled Mexico just by virtue of being wealthier, more industrialized, and having 3 times as many people.

Also, as a fun anecdote, Milwaukee had a German-language newspaper up until WW1. It ceased publication soon thereafter.

 

[roydo]

Think I'm right in saying that at the time there were also an awful lot of German ex-pats in the US, so it was far from certain that public opinion in America would side with the Allies.

Also find it a bit odd that people say we won. I mean things could have been worse, but losing that many men, bankrupting our economy and sewing the seeds for both the disintegration of the empire and for WW2 hardly seems worthy of celebration to me. The whole thing kinda signaled the end of Europe as the dominant continent.

Massive Irish population as well. After what when on in Ireland around that time, there was no way they would want to help the Brits out.

 

[Garrick]

Massive Irish population as well. After what when on in Ireland around that time, there was no way they would want to help the Brits out.

Near 80% of the people around me are either of Irish or German heritage, I'm the weird one being of Italian descent.

 

[Allezfan]

Popular American sentiment was for neutrality at the time, even though Woodrow Wilson was interested in helping the Allies. The Zimmermann Telegraph led to a sea change in views.

Huge miscalculation in my opinion, especially considering after any sort of buildup (pre-WW1 US military was extremely weak), we would have steamrolled Mexico just by virtue of being wealthier, more industrialized, and having 3 times as many people.

Also, as a fun anecdote, Milwaukee had a German-language newspaper up until WW1. It ceased publication soon thereafter.

Wasn't the USA already at war with one of the many claiments to mexico, though?