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Liverpool-Ukrainian Eurovision, 2023

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Nightman said:
Yes, the people who run these establishments. You're acting like they're profiteering energy companies or supermarkets and the like, for god sake.

They are people trying to make a living like the rest of us and you chastise them for having a good couple of weeks. Good one.
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Of course they're profiteers. There's another poster on this thread who told you that his son earned more from that one week's work covering that event than they get in a month. What does that tell you?

Bars, restaurants and hotels have some of the worst paying jobs there is. Accommodation and Food Services account for 60% of the worst paid jobs in the UK economy.

And you're asking me to cheer that lot on?
 
Milk said:
Polish tottie, Israeli tottie, various forewomen of the various countries tottie, the bizarre appearance of Catherine Tate & her norks, Hannah Waddingtons independent norks …. And the Swedish winner looking to be off her face on some chemical substance (allegedly)
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Moldova midget with a flute and women with dildo hats.
Finland getting a human centipede dance in.
 

davek said:
Of course they're profiteers. There's another poster on this thread who told you that his son earned more from that one week's work covering that event than they get in a month. What does that tell you?

Bars, restaurants and hotels have some of the worst paying jobs there is. Accommodation and Food Services account for 60% of the worst paid jobs in the UK economy.

And you're asking me to cheer that lot on?
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It tells you that a bar, that is normally quiet during the week, just like many other licensed premises in the city centre, had a week, similar to the run up to Christmas.

So what ?
 
COYBL25 said:
It tells you that a bar, that is normally quiet during the week, just like many other licensed premises in the city centre, had a week, similar to the run up to Christmas.

So what ?
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It's a simple argument to knock down overall isn't it?

I'm saying that bar owners, hotel owners and restaurant owners in a city centre can make profits at the best of times and an event like Eurovision has allowed them to super-exploit their own workers and customers.

I cant believe anyone would be arsed defending that class of people. It's a no brainer to view them for what they are. Save your concern for the exploited.
 

davek said:
Of course they're profiteers. There's another poster on this thread who told you that his son earned more from that one week's work covering that event than they get in a month. What does that tell you?

Bars, restaurants and hotels have some of the worst paying jobs there is. Accommodation and Food Services account for 60% of the worst paid jobs in the UK economy.

And you're asking me to cheer that lot on?
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Dave, honest question, do you have any experience in respect of the pub or restaurant trade ? I’ve now owned a pub for about 5 years and it’s been a real eye opener. Covid, closures, and cost of living crisis, coupled with increased power and alcohol prices, have decimated the industry. We have not once made a profit. In a good year it just about covers costs and staff wages. This industry is not populated by Spivs and Chancers but by hard working dedicated people, many of whom I have seen go to the wall in trying to keep their heads above water. They have to compete with subsidised drinks from the Tesco’s of this world while providing a warm, hospitable venue while the VATman takes 20% of everything. A lot of pubs around our way have simply given up and sold up for housing. So perhaps when pubs and restaurants in Liverpool get an exceptional week, a single week that may never be repeated, you may like to think that they still had to buy all their alcohol and food at higher prices than Tesco’s, still had to pay exorbitant power costs and then send 20% of everything to the VATman, and if they do happen to make a profit in the year they’ll be hit with a further tax bill. It’s not for the faint hearted……
 
peteblue said:
Dave, honest question, do you have any experience in respect of the pub or restaurant trade ? I’ve now owned a pub for about 5 years and it’s been a real eye opener. Covid, closures, and cost of living crisis, coupled with increased power and alcohol prices, have decimated the industry. We have not once made a profit. In a good year it just about covers costs and staff wages. This industry is not populated by Spivs and Chancers but by hard working dedicated people, many of whom I have seen go to the wall in trying to keep their heads above water. They have to compete with subsidised drinks from the Tesco’s of this world while providing a warm, hospitable venue while the VATman takes 20% of everything. A lot of puts around our way have simply given up and sold up for housing. So perhaps when pubs and restaurants in Liverpool get an exceptional week, a single week that may never be repeated, you may like to think that they still had to buy all their alcohol and food at higher prices than Tesco’s, still had to pay exorbitant power costs and then send 20% of everything to the VATman, and if they do happen to make a profit in the year they’ll be hit with a further tax bill. It’s not for the faint hearted……
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No I haven't. But success or failure will be determined where you're located. We're talking here about a thriving tourist city like Liverpool and so the city centre bars, restaurants and hotels servicing all kinds of traffic from the various conferences and events - which is who Im referring to - will be a different proposition to the food and hospitality sector elsewhere in the city. Yes, there'll be a shake out of some, but that'll just leave the market to bigger competitors.

As I said, I cant believe I'm having to defend the act of defending migrant workers and kids working in that sector. They really are the super-exploited of the UK economy. Anyone defending those who make cash off them are obscene or obtuse, or both.
 
davek said:
No I haven't. But success or failure will be determined where you're located. We're talking here about a thriving tourist city like Liverpool and so the city centre bars, restaurants and hotels servicing all kinds of traffic from the various conferences and events - which is who Im referring to - will be a different proposition to the food and hospitality sector elsewhere in the city. Yes, there'll be a shake out of some leaving the market to bigger competitors.

As I said, I cant believe I'm having to defend the act of defending migrant workers and kids working in that sector. They really are the super-exploited of the UK economy. Anyone defending those who make cash off them are obscene or obtuse, or both.
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Workers in the industry are typically on minimum wages, a bar manager obviously more. The problem you face is that the industry could raise their wages quite easily but staff costs depending on type of venue range from 25-40% of total costs. So you raise all the wages by say 50% and all the staff will be happy. Unfortunately the price of a pint plus its associated VAT then goes through the roof, people drink less or buy from Tesco and the downward spiral continues. If the good people of Liverpool are happy to pay £6 a pint…that’s £5 to the pub and £1 to the VATman, then fine. But it’s a balancing act between what is acceptable to customers and what it does to costs. Honestly, and you know I’m not having a go, but pub owners and landlords agonise over this all the time…remember also, once a pub has closed its doors and gone, it very rarely comes back……
 
peteblue said:
Workers in the industry are typically on minimum wages, a bar manager obviously more. The problem you face is that the industry could raise their wages quite easily but staff costs depending on type of venue range from 25-40% of total costs. So you raise all the wages by say 50% and all the staff will be happy. Unfortunately the price of a pint plus its associated VAT then goes through the roof, people drink less or buy from Tesco and the downward spiral continues. If the good people of Liverpool are happy to pay £6 a pint…that’s £5 to the pub and £1 to the VATman, then fine. But it’s a balancing act between what is acceptable to customers and what it does to costs. Honestly, and you know I’m not having a go, but pub owners and landlords agonise over this all the time…remember also, once a pub has closed its doors and gone, it very rarely comes back……
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You know I'm not generalising here. I know the churn in that sector is high. All of that still does not undermine my fundamental point though.
 
davek said:
You know I'm not generalising here. I know the churn in that sector is high. All of that still does not undermine my fundamental point though.
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I appreciate your thoughts and views towards the staff, but the harsh financial realities cannot be gotten away from unfortunately. Of course getting rid of the VAT burden on pubs and restaurants would change the picture dramatically….
 

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