JLW
Player Valuation: £60m
He's a half decent stop gap keeper (number 2), but if our ambitions are as high as were led to believe then he's not good enough!
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Well obviously you can have an opinion on some options, but that doesn't mean they're the best options. We can all say 'I think we should sign Forster/Butland/Pickford/Begovic/Vorm' but for all I know there could be a keeper twice as good as any of them and available at a quarter of the price that we could get from the Swedish league.
This isn't FIFA or Football Manager, I'm just giving my opinion on Everton and how we can improve. I would be very surprised (horrified even) if our scouting network was limited to players I know about, so I'm not sure what relevance my ability to identify a replacement has on the validity of the original statement.
mkrudden
Player Valuation: £40m
Everything within the confines of this forum (and outside of the profession itself) may not be valid because we aren't qualified within the profession. Yes.
Change "scouting network" to any aspect of our club. If you think that lack of expertise inhibits your ability to offer an opinion then what are you even doing on here? Because in the grand scheme of things, you have no idea what you're talking about. Neither do I. You might say "the keeper is guff because he didnt catch that ball" but how do you know it was catch-able? Have you ever been in that situation? at that level? No, but you can hazard a guess, based on your eyes, that he should have done better.
There is zero difference to the subject matter of Stek and possible replacements.
There is football manager about saying "I like Vorm and think he is better than Stek". Fair play.
Saying "Stek is dog but my opinion cannot stretch to an alternative within the confines of a fans forum" is, as I said, a little odd to me.
Enjoyed the debate with you. As ever.
I don't mind Vorm mate but honestly, I don't think we should be going for Spurs' no.2 as our no.1.
He's better than Stek, but not really by much, IMO...
You're totally misunderstanding what I'm saying.Everything within the confines of this forum (and outside of the profession itself) may not be valid because we aren't qualified within the profession. Yes.
Change "scouting network" to any aspect of our club. If you think that lack of expertise inhibits your ability to offer an opinion then what are you even doing on here? Because in the grand scheme of things, you have no idea what you're talking about. Neither do I. You might say "the keeper is guff because he didnt catch that ball" but how do you know it was catch-able? Have you ever been in that situation? at that level? No, but you can hazard a guess, based on your eyes, that he should have done better.
There is zero difference to the subject matter of Stek and possible replacements.
There is football manager about saying "I like Vorm and think he is better than Stek". Fair play.
Saying "Stek is dog but my opinion cannot stretch to an alternative within the confines of a fans forum" is, as I said, a little odd to me.
Enjoyed the debate with you. As ever.
As I just said, I can give an opinion that Butland for example is better than Stekelenburg, and potentially realistic, but the point is I couldn't care less who the better keeper we sign is, as long they're better. I'm not trying to put forward a solution, merely to say that I think we have a keeper who is not good enough to take us to the level we want to be at. We could all play fantasy football and say 'I think we should sign x, y and z and then we'll be boss' and there's nothing wrong with people doing that. I just also don't think there's anything wrong with saying 'I'm not sure player x is good enough but I'm buggered if I know who I'd replace him with.'
Doesn't really make sense though. I mean by saying he's not good enough you're putting a context to it, you must be judging his ability against other keepers otherwise you wouldn't know if he was world class or dog muck to begin with. It's therefore a bit weird to not have an idea about who would be better.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Danny Blind got a lot of criticism from the Dutch footy establishment for including Stekelenburg in the team last night. Wim van Hanegem, in particular, was outspoken about it. I dont think that was a great way of answering critics, and he seems like a flapper to me.
GKs should be dominant and massively confident. I dont see that in this feller. Nothing against him, he's half-ways decent, but Robles class for me.
GKs should be dominant and massively confident. I dont see that in this feller. Nothing against him, he's half-ways decent, but Robles class for me.
Papa Shango
Player Valuation: £70m
He is no Yann Sommer like.
It really isn't. Let me use an extreme example to illustrate the point, as it seems that you may be struggling with it in its basic form.
Let's say we want to compare Everton with Barcelona and Real Madrid. We compare our players to those at the other clubs, and after careful deliberation decide that Tom Cleverley, Kevin Mirallas and Yannick Bolasie aren't quite as good as Busquets, Neymar, Messi, Ronaldo, Kroos et al. We do not need any further context with regard to other players to come to that conclusion, we can do it just by looking at a direct comparison. We can then decide that for Everton to compete with those 2 clubs we need better players than the ones we have, but we don't have to have any knowledge of other available players whatsoever.
The same principle applies here. It is perfectly acceptable to say if we want to finish in the top 4 or 5 we need a keeper at least as good as De Gea, Bravo, Lloris, Courtois and Cech. Whether you can identify one or not is completely irrelevant, the hypothesis itself still stands.
Leicester won the league last year. Schmeichel isn't as good as any of the keepers you've named there?
We need better than what we have currently, realistically, to get us in the top four.
Stek has done well so far and as a stop-gap we could have done much worse. The issue is now going to be getting somebody in January if we need to.
It would be nice, but I just can't see the quality we require being on offer during the middle of the season.
I agree with every word of that. I wasn't saying we need to replace him or that it's not possible to get top 4 unless you have the best players in every position, simply that you don't necessarily need to be able to put forward a replacement in order to decide that somebody may not be at the level you require/desire.
In my opinion stekelenburg is in a group along with the likes of Oviedo, cleverley, Mirallas, McCarthy, Valencia etc in that if we want to really push on, their time on the pitch needs to be limited going forward. It's not that they're useless, simply that I don't think they offer enough to compete at the top end. I don't have a little black book of potential back up left backs and midfielders either unfortunately.
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Have you seen any of those qualities you mention Dave in our last few Gks?
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
...that's why we always knew we had to push the boat out and buy a top drawer GK. We all knew it. Everyone of us. It needed taking care of when Howard started underperforming and when he announced he was leaving we all stated that we need to move decisively to get that top draw GK.
Didn't happen though, and we went for the cheap as chips option once again. It's nice to have a billionaire on board, isn't it?
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Not sure he would have been much use between the sticks Dave.
I take it that apart from early Tim, no other recent Gks comes to mind.
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